Transcript of Trump Manhattan Trial, April 26, 2024 (2024)

Jury TrialPage 1330SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORKCOUNTY OF NEW YORK: CRIMINAL TERMPART: 59THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK-XIndictmentNo. 71543/2023-against-DONALD J. TRUMP,FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDSFIRST DEGREEDefendant.--X100 Centre StreetNew York, NY 10013April 26, 2024BEFORE: HONORABLE JUAN M. MERCHAN, JUSTICEAPPEARANCES:For the People:ALVIN L. BRAGG, JR., ESQ.District Attorney, New York CountyBY: JOSHUA STEINGLASS, ESQ.MATTHEW COLANGELO, ESQ.SUSAN HOFFINGER, ESQ.CHRISTOPHER CONROY, ESQ.REBECCA MANGOLD, ESQ.KATHERINE ELLIS, ESQ.For the Defense:BLANCHE LAWBY: TODD BLANCHE, ESQ.EMIL BOVE, ESQ.NECHELES LAW, LLPBY:SUSAN NECHELES, ESQ.GEDALIA M. STERN, ESQ.SUSAN PEARCE-BATESPrincipal Court ReporterLAURIE EISENBERGLISA KRAMSKYTHERESA MAGNICCARISenior Court ReportersLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

ProceedingsPage 1331THE CLERK: Continuing case on trial, People v.12Donald J. Trump.345Appearances, starting with the People.MR. STEINGLASS: For the People, ADA JoshuaSteinglass, Susan Hoffinger, Matthew Colangelo,Christopher Conroy, Becky Mangold, and Katherine Ellis.MR. BOVE: Emil Bove for President Trump, seatedto my left. I'm joined by Todd Blanche, Susan Necheles,and Gedalia Stern.THE COURT: Good morning.A couple of things to go over.Regarding next week's hearing, I think youreceived my email, we're changing the time of that fromWednesday at 2:15 to Thursday at 9:30.I also wanted to go over the issue regarding thetext from Dylan Howard you wanted me to look at. We spoke789101112131415161718192021concerns, and I believe they're22THE COURT: I read the submissions, including all23the legal authority that was handed up.2425I also read the relevant portions of thetranscript, which were Pages 1221 through 1226.about it yesterday.MR. STEINGLASS: To the extent that it may informyour Honor's opinion, we sent counsel, last night, someproposed redactions to remove what I think were theiryou'll review those.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

Proceedings78910111213141516171812"I think we're basically on the same page."345And then, on 1224, you express your concern. Andyour concern is, "At some point, cumulatively, it becomescumulatively prejudicial."So, I appreciate your concern, and I agree thatthere could come a point where it will possibly becomeprejudicial.The difficulty is, I don't know at this pointwhat that's going to be. So we're just going to have tokeep going through it. You'll make your objections. I'llconsider the objections. And at some point, we may getthere.I am relying, primarily, on People v. Settles,S-E-T-T-L-E-S, 46 N.Y.2d 154, at Page 169. This is a Courtof Appeals decision. "Naturally, there can be no precisedemarkation or formulation of the proof which willconstitute sufficient support of evidence of a declarationPage 1332I note on Page 123, Mr. Bove, at Line 20, says,1920against penal interests. By its very nature, thedetermination involves a delicate balance of diverse21factors and is entrusted to the sound judgment of the22232425trial court which is aptly suited to weigh thecirc*mstances surrounding the declaration and the evidenceused to bolster its reliability."So, that's really what's going to guide thisLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

ProceedingsPage 13331Court.2But, the fact that you said you're pretty much on3the same page, we're in agreement with who is a45co-conspirator in this case: Dylan Howard. We're inagreement that at least some, if not most, of theresponses are coming in for some purpose. And we're alsoin agreement that there will be redactions to that.MR. BOVE: Yes, Judge.Thank you. I appreciate and understand all ofJust for the record, when you said we're inagreement about who's a co-conspirator, we understand theCourt's ruling, and we're abiding by it.78910that.111213141516171819202122232425Our objection has been noted.And I will confer with Mr. Steinglass and theGovernment over the weekend about the proposed redactions,and we'll get back to the Court on Tuesday.THE COURT: Of course.Once you do that, please let me know what yousuggest the instruction should be to the jury, what is itthey're considering that other language for.MR. BOVE: Yes, Judge.Thank you.THE COURT: We're going to break today at 12:30to hear the People's motion, motion to compel.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

12345ProceedingsPage 1334MR. COLANGELO:Thank you.One update on that.After further discussions with the third party'scounsel this morning, we think we no longer need theCourt's intervention on that today.We will bring it to your attention should it7become necessary.89101112THE COURT: Great.We'll go to one o'clock.Is there anything else?MR. STEINGLASS: There's a few things.First, is your Honor going to address the issue13with the jury that was raised at the end of the day about1415161718192021222324the, what we consider to be, improper impeachment byomission by Mr. Bove?THE COURT: Would you like to be heard, Mr. Bove?MR. BOVE: Yes, Judge.Just to clarify, my intentions for this morningon this issue are to begin by basically saying toMr. Pecker: I apologize for any confusion about that,clarify a little bit about his relationship withMs. Hicks, and move on.There's grand jury testimony on this issue forwhere a specific question was asked. I'll draw the25witness' attention to that and go through it.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

Proceedings12345789101112131415161718192022Page 1335I've reviewed Bornholdt and its authorities, andI'll lay a proper foundation.THE COURT: Thank you.I think that's sufficient to address the issue.MR. STEINGLASS: Next. Whatever Mr. Bove'sintentions were with regard to the questions about priormeetings with the DA's Office and reviewing materials, Ithink that he left a misleading impression that thatcontact was somehow improper, and I don't think it wouldbe appropriate to wait until the end of the case to givethe CJI instruction on pretrial preparation.I'm handing it up to the Court.The Court has been very reasonable about givingmid-trial curative instructions or limiting instructions,and I would ask that you give this instruction to the jurythis morning.THE COURT: Any objections?MR. BOVE: May I have just one moment, Judge?THE COURT: Sure.(Whereupon, defense counsel confer.)MR. BOVE: Judge, I think there was aninstruction along these lines in your preliminary2122232425THE COURT:instructions, so I think the jury is aware of this issue.I'm not sure it's necessary.There was a brief reference to it. ItLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

ProceedingsPage 1336was very brief, if I remember.It's: I advise you, it's common or permissible1234before they testify.for the prosecutor and counsel to meet with witnessesLO567816910111213141516171819202122232425I believe that was, pretty much, what I said.So, I can give this instruction just to modify.MR. STEINGLASS:Okay.I also have a proposed instruction. It doesn'thave to be given today. But, it's an instruction onredaction, so the jury doesn't draw any improperinferences from the fact that certain material, personalmaterial or otherwise material that the parties haveagreed is irrelevant should not be before the jury or isprejudicial, so that the jury doesn't draw any improperinferences from the existence of those redactions.Next. I think, again, whether intentionally orunintentionally, Mr. Bove's questioning yesterdayimproperly conflated the federal prosecutors and stateprosecutors, referring to both as "the Government".Of course, that's,knowyou--the stateprosecutors are referred to as "the People".I am not telling Mr. Bove how to refer to us, ifthat's how he chooses to refer to us.But, I do think he needs to be clear when he'squestioning the witness about prior interviews, whichLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

ProceedingsPage 13371prosecutors he is talking about.2So, if that's unclear from the question, I will3object, and I just wanted to explain.4That's fair, because there was more5789101112THE COURT:than one prosecutor's office involved here.MR. STEINGLASS: Thank you.Finally, Judge, I just want to bring the Court'sattention to that we caught a reference in People's 174Ato a lie detector that was gonna be taken live.I don't know if your Honor noticed it when we hadthe witness on the stand.I don't think your Honor precluded reference tothe lie detector. Just the results of the lie detector.1314We've taken a broad view of that and have1516171819redacted references where we've seen them.I notified counsel and swapped out a new versionof 174A that contains a redaction just of the word "liedetector".THE COURT: Is that it for the People?22020MR. STEINGLASS:Yes, your Honor.2122232425THE COURT: How about the Defense?MR. BOVE: No, your Honor.THE COURT: Okay.We can get the witness, please.COURT OFFICER: Witness entering.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 133812345(Whereupon, the witness, David Pecker, havingbeen previously duly sworn and/or affirmed, resumes thewitness stand and testifies as follows:)THE COURT: Good morning, Mr. Pecker.Welcome back.I remind you that you're still under oath.Get the jury, please.COURT OFFICER: All rise.Jury entering.(Whereupon, the jurors and the alternate jurorsare present and properly seated.)THE CLERK: Continuing case on trial, People v.678910111213Donald J. Trump.141516171819202122232425All parties and all jurors are present.THE COURT: Good morning, jurors.Jurors, before we continue with the cross ofMr. Pecker, I wanted to give you an instruction regardingyesterday's testimony.You heard testimony yesterday about theprosecution speaking to Mr. Pecker about the case beforethe witness testified at this trial.The law permits the prosecution or an attorney tospeak to a witness about a case before the witnesstestifies and permits the prosecution or an attorney toreview with the witness the questions that will or may beLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove123451067891011Page 1339asked at trial, including questions that may be asked oncross-examination.You have also heard testimony that a witness,Mr. Pecker, read or reviewed certain materials pertainingto this case before he testified at trial.The law permits a witness to do so.Speaking to a witness about his or her testimonyand permitting a witness to review materials pertaining tothe case before the witness testifies is a normal part ofpreparing for trial.It is not improper, as long as it is notsuggested that the witness depart from the truth.Mr. Bove.MR. BOVE: Thank you, Judge.MR. BOVE: May I inquire, Judge?THE COURT: Yes.CONTINUED CROSS-EXAMINATIONBY MR. BOVE:1213141516171819Good morning, Mr. Pecker.20AGood morning.21222324When we were talking at the end of the day yesterday,we were speaking about a meeting with the federal prosecutorsin August of 2018.Do you remember that?25AYes,I do.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13401Q234That was my fault. There was some confusion in thequestioning about what had been said and whether Hope Hickscame up.Do you remember that?5AYes.6789from that.I want to apologize and move on to another meetingIf I ask a bad question today, I think Mr. Steinglass willtell me, but you can as well, and we'll make sure that I'm10clear.11AThank you.12As I said, we were talking about Hope Hicks; right?13AYes.14And you knew Ms. Hicks long before August of 2015;15correct?16AI did.17She had worked at Hiltzik Strategies?18AShe did.1920A21That is a communication and strategy firm; correct?It is.They did some work for AMI?22AYes.23That's one of the ways you met Ms. Hicks; right?24AThat's correct.25I think you said she did some work for Star Magazine?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13411AYes.23A45Which was an AMI publication under your watch?Yes.You testified on Tuesday that she also worked asPresident Trump's Communications Director at some point?6AYes.789So, what I was asking you about yesterday was yourtestimony in response to Mr. Steinglass' questions aboutwhether Ms. Hicks was in that meeting in August of 2015; right?10AYes. That's correct.1112131415And to be fair, you said that on direct, that shewas in and out of the meeting; right?AThat's what I said.It's not as if you suggested to the jury that sheparticipated in the meeting; correct?16AThat's correct.17181920And you did not suggest to the jury that you have arecollection of her speaking during the meeting; correct?A That's absolutely correct.Now, you testified in federal grand jury proceedings;21right?22AYes.23And that was also in August of 2018; correct?24AYes.25And it was about two weeks after the meeting that weLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1342were talking about at the end of the day yesterday; right?AThat's correct.1234AYes.5слAugust 13, 2018; does that sound right?106A7And there was a court order there; right?Yes.Just like today?8AYes.9And you were under oath; correct?10AYes.11Just like today?12AJust like today.13141516171819202122232425And do you recall being asked the question: "Did youmeet with Donald Trump and Michael Cohen, an employee of theTrump Organization, at Trump Tower?"Do you recall that question?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Sustained.Mr. Bove, if you are going to advise the witnessto a particular portion of the transcript, please advisethe prosecution so that they can turn to it.MR. BOVE: Yes.Mr. Bernik, for the Court the parties andPecker, can we please bring up the document marked foridentification as Exhibit A104. If we can go to Page 5.Mr.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1343(Whereupon, an exhibit is shown on the screen of1Please and zoom in on Lines 17 through 19.2345the witness and the parties, and the witness reviews theexhibit.)correct?Sir, this is from your federal grand jury testimony;Do you recall being asked this question?1067AYes.89AYes.101112MR. BOVE: If we could zoom out, please,Mr. Bernik, and turn to the next page, Page 6.Do you see at Lines 6 and 7, you were asked to tell13the grand jury what happened at this meeting?14AYes.1516When you were asked that question, you understood itwas in reference to the August 2015 meeting; right?And you answered the question, obviously; right?Could I see the answer?Yes. Yes.MR. BOVE: We can zoom out entirely, Mr. Bernik,17AThat's correct.1819A202122232425AYou said it was 6 and 7?and give Mr. Pecker an opportunity to review.(Whereupon, the witness reviews the exhibit onhis screen.)Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1344106A78910A1Yes.2345MR. BOVE: We can go to Page 7 now, please.(Whereupon, the witness reviews the exhibit onhis screen.)Let me know when you're done.Can we turn back to 6?Of course.(Whereupon, the witness reviews the exhibit onhis screen.)The next page, please.11MR. BOVE: Can you go to Page 7 please,12131415Mr. Bernik?(Whereupon, the exhibit is shown on the witness'screen and the parties' screens, and the witness reviewsthe exhibit.)16AI read Page 7.171819202122232425MR. BOVE:Page 8, please, Mr. Bernik.(Whereupon, the exhibit is shown on the witness'screen and the parties' screens, and the witness reviewsthe document.)A Okay. Page 8.Thank you.So those pages, Pages 5 through 8, constitute your answerabout the August 2015 meeting; right?AYes.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove123456789Page 1345During that testimony in August of 2018, you did notdescribe any specific statements made by Ms. Hicks; correct?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Sustained.Q Let's talk a little bit about what was said during theAugust 2015 meeting.You said on your direct that there was discussion aboutBill and Hillary Clinton; correct?AYes.101112And at the time of this meeting, August 2015, theNational Enquirer was already running stories about Bill andHillary Clinton; correct?13AYes.14That was going on before the meeting; right?15AThat's correct.1617And that was because you had made a business decisionthat it was good for the National Enquirer to run thosestories; correct?We talked about, yesterday, how you were going to theresearch meetings; right?1819AI did.202122AYes.2324AYes.25And looking at the data?And thinking about what made sense from a businessLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13461perspective for AMI?2ACorrect.3What was consistent with your fiduciary obligations at4AMI?5AYes.678So, before the August 2015 meeting, you made adecision that it made sense for AMI to run articles about Billand Hillary Clinton; right?9AYes.10And those articles were negative; right?11AYes.1213So, it was easy for you to say during the August 2015meeting that you would continue to do that; right?14AYes.15That was no issue for you?16ANo.17We talked yesterday about things that were mutually18 beneficial.That was entirely beneficial to AMI?1920212223A24MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Sustained.Running those stories were beneficial to AMI; correct?Running the stories were beneficial to AMI. Correct.And doing what was good for AMI was standard operating25 procedure?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13471AYes.23Now, you testified on Tuesday that during thisAugust 2015 meeting, there was also a discussion about running4negative stories about President Trump's opponents; right?5AThat's correct.607And you testified that there was discussion of thattopic during the August 2015 meeting; do you remember that?8AYes.9And three specific opponents, preliminary opponents10came up; right?11AYes.12Ben Carson; correct?13AYes.14Marco Rubio; right?15ARight.16And Ted Cruz; correct?17AYes.181920And you were shown some exhibits by the Governmentthat related to stories the National Enquirer ran about thosethree men;correct?21AThat's correct.22There wasn't much new content in those stories%;B was23there?24AI would have to reread the stories to answer that25 question.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 134812345We'll take a look at the stories in a minute.But, let me ask you this: It was standard operatingprocedure for the National Enquirer to, sort of, recyclecontent from other publications and frame it slightlydifferently; correct?106ACorrect.7That's cost effective?8ACorrect.91011Information from the public domain goes into theNational Enquirer. It's quick and easy.Correct?12AYes.1314A1516A1718Good for business?Yes.Consistent with your fiduciary obligations; correct?Yes.And for at least some of the articles that youtestified about on Tuesday, that's exactly what you did; right?19AYes.2021There was already negative information in the publicdomain about Ben Carson, and so you ran it in the NationalEnquirer; right?2223AYes.2425And because that was quick, and efficient, andcost effective, you would have done that whether or not you hadLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13491discussed it with President Trump; correct?2AYes.345сл106789MR. BOVE: Mr. Bernik, if we could take a look atGovernment Exhibit 153A, please. This can be shown to thejury. This is in evidence.(Whereupon, the exhibit is shown on the screens.)Mr. Pecker, this is one of the exhibits we looked aton Tuesday; right?10AYes.And there are five headlines here relating to Ben11Carson; correct?12AYes.13And there's some dates on the page. Do you see them?14AYes.1516And the date range is, basically, from what I cantell, October 2015 to December of 2015; right?17AYes.181920So, you see that there's an article--the top articleon this page relates to some kind of issue with a surgeryperformed by Dr. Carson; right?21AYes.22And in this timeframe, 2015, you were leading AMI;23right?24AYes.25And you were familiar with what was going on withLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13501other publications; correct?2AYes.3You had to be, right, in order to do your job?4AYes.56And you had to be on top of what was in the publicdomain at the time; correct?7AYes.8You had to keep track of current events; right?9AYes.101112So, you knew, did you not, that in May 2015,The Guardian published an article regarding several malpracticesuits against Dr. Carson; correct?13AThat's correct.1415And so, in May 2015, long before any of the articleson this page, The Guardian had covered this issue; right?16AYes.1718And, in fact, The Guardian article referenced sevenmalpractice claims against Dr. Carson; right?19AYes.2021that'sAnd the article referenced on the top of the screen,the child there, her name is Karly Bailey; right?22AI don't remember her name.23MR. BOVE: Mr. Bernik, if we could, forMr.2425Pecker, the parties and the Court, bring up what's beenmarked for identification as Defense Exhibit A133.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1234Page 1351(Whereupon, the exhibit is shown on the witness'and the parties' screens.)MR. BOVE: If you could turn to Page 3, please.And I want to see, Mr. Pecker, if this refreshes your5 recollection about the name of the child.106(Whereupon, the witness reviews the exhibit onhis screen.)Yes, it does.What was her name?MR. BOVE: We can take that down.Thank you.If we could bring back up People's 153A. That can78A910AKarly Bailey.1112131415161718AYes.19be for everyone, please.(Whereupon, an exhibit is shown on the screens.)That photograph on the top of a child is actuallyrecycled from The Guardian article; correct?20And so, there are four articles on this page thatrelate to these medical malpractice claims; correct?21AYes.222324And all of them contain information that was recycledfrom a publication months earlier in The Guardian; right?AThat's correct.25And do you recall that in 2016, The Guardian websiteLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13521had about 40 million unique users in the United States?2AI don't recall that.345сл1067891011MR. BOVE: Mr. Bernik, can we please bring up adocument marked for identification. This is just for theCourt, the parties and Mr. Pecker. It's been marked foridentification as A138.(Whereupon, an exhibit is shown on the witness'screen and the parties' screens, and the witness reviewsthe exhibit on his screen.)A I don't see where it says 40 million.MR. BOVE: Can we turn to the next page, please?(Whereupon, the witness reviews the exhibit onhis screen.)Yeah. 40 million unique users.MR. STEINGLASS:Objection.Move to strike his answer in terms of the base ofhis knowledge.THE COURT:Sustained.121314A1516171819202122website?23MR. STEINGLASS:24THE COURT:25A IMR. BOVE: We can take that down, Mr. Bernik.Did that document refresh your recollection that, in2016, The Guardian had about 40 million unique users on itsObjection.Sustained.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

12345D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1353THE COURT: No. Don't answer the question.THE WITNESS:Okay.MR. BOVE: If we could bring up People's 153A,please. This is for everyone, please.(Whereupon, an exhibit is shown on the screens.)You see the fourth headline on this page?There's a reference to military service?1067AYes.89A10111213Yes.It's hard for me to see from here, but I think it'sdated November 11, 2015?ANovember 11th.And do you recall, this is also a situation where theNational Enquirer posted information that was already in the1415public domain?16A I don't recall this exact article. We'reI don't1718192021recall exactly where the information was derived from thisarticle.Do you recall, five days earlier, Politico ran aheadline: Exclusive: Carson claimed West Point scholarship butnever applied?22AI don't recall.232425MR. BOVE: If you could please bring up for thethe parties, the witness, and the Court the documentmarked A134.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove12345сл10678A9Page 1354(Whereupon, the exhibit is on the witness'and the parties' screens.)Just take a look at that.MR. BOVE: Can I have one moment, please?THE COURT: Sure.(Whereupon, the attorneys confer.)Have you had a chance to look at that?Yes.MR. BOVE: We can take that down, please.screenDoes that refresh your recollection that about fivedays before the National Enquirer article, Politico ran anarticle with the title: Exclusive: Carson claimed West Pointscholarship but never applied?1011121314AYes.151617181920MR. BOVE: Mr. Bernik, if we could take a lookfor everyone at People's 153C.(Whereupon, an exhibit is shown on the screens.)And these are articles that you were shown by theGovernment, during your direct examination, relating to MarcoRubio; correct?21AYes.22And these articles are also based on information that23was not exclusive to the National Enquirer; correct?24AYes.25The top article actually refers to a book that hadLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13551been published about Mr. Rubio; correct?2AI don't recall the book.345слMR. BOVE: Mr. Bernik, if you could please bringup for the Court, Mr. Pecker, and the parties, a documentmarked for identification as Defense Exhibit A141.106(Whereupon, a document is shown on the parties'7screens.)8Do you have that on your screen?9ANo.1011A1213141516171819A2021I can hand a copy up.Okay.(Whereupon, a document is given to the witness.)MR. BOVE: If I could hand a copy up to theCourt, as well.(Whereupon, a document is given to the Court.)THE COURT: Thank you.(Whereupon, the witness reviews the document.)Have you had a chance to look at that?Yes.That was a copy of the National Enquirer article wherewe saw the headline on the screen; right?22AYes. That's correct.232425Having reviewed that, does that refresh yourrecollection that what was really going on in the article wasyou were reviewing a book that had been published; right?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13561A23A45Correct.So, it wasn't new information published; correct?That's correct.Substantially, everything in the exhibits you wereshown in 153A, 153B and 153C, what was going on was theNational Enquirer was recycling information from otherpublications because it was cost effective and made business10678sense?9MR.1011STEINGLASS:THE COURT: Overruled.You can answer.Objection.12AYes.13And you talked about the National Enquirer relying on14sources; right?15AYes.16There was a source network of sorts; right?17AThat's correct.1819And one of the things that can be valuable to somebodyin this industry is cultivating a network of sources; right?20AYes.21So the people that work for you can draw on those22sources to get sensitive details; right?23AYes.2425 articles we just looked at; right?But, that's not what was happening with respect to theLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13571AThat's correct.23A45That was a different part of the business; right?Yes.Where you were taking information that was public andposting it on the website?6AYes.78And you testified on Tuesday that it was yourobjective to keep the August 2015 meeting confidential;9correct?10AYes.1112right?And I think you said, "highly, highly confidential;"13AThat's correct.1415And you wanted to keep the meeting as quiet aspossible. I think you used those words, too.16AI did.1718But, it actually became public prior to the electionthat you were doing those things for President Trump; correct?19AUh, yes.20People picked up on it; right?21AYes.22232425Nothing was hidden; correct?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Sustained.Q But, you testified, I think, yesterday about a WallLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove12Page 1358Street Journal article relating to Karen McDougal; do you_ remember that?3AYes.4That was People's Exhibit 180; right?5AThat's correct.60That article came out before the election, you said;7right?8AYes.910111213please.MR. BOVE: This is in evidence.Can we bring that up, People's 180, please?(Whereupon, the exhibit is shown on the screens.)MR. BOVE: Can you zoom in on the top half,14QYou see it? Above the headline, it says, "Election152016;" right?16AYes.171819A202122232425So, this is Wall Street Journal coverage prior to the2016 election; correct?That is correct.MR. BOVE: If we can go to Page 2 of the exhibit,please, and zoom in on the second to last paragraph.(Whereupon, an exhibit is shown on the screens.)Do you see where it says "Since last year, theEnquirer has supported Mr. Trump's presidential bid, endorsinghim and publishing negative articles about some of hisLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13591opponents"?2AYes, I see that.3So, this was out there prior to the election; correct?4AYes.5сл610MR. BOVE: You can take that down.Thank you.Q I want to stick with the August 2015 meeting.Okay?789AYes.101112131415At that meeting, the concept of "catch and kill" wasnot discussed; correct?AThat's correct.And there was no discussion of a financial dimensionto any agreement at that meeting; correct?18A1920AYes. That's correct.1617And you testified on Tuesday about a Source Agreementwith somebody named Dino Sajudin; do you remember that?Yes, I do.You said you learned of Mr. Sajudin's false story inabout October of 2015?21AThat's correct.2223You testified on Tuesday that you never discussed thisstory directly with President Trump; correct?24AThat is correct.25And President Trump never paid you any money inLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1 connection with that Sajudin story; right?Page 1360And Cohen didn't pay you any money, either; did he?2ANo, he did not.34A5слNo.You testified Tuesday there was a Source Agreementbetween AMI and Mr. Sajudin; right?1067AYes.89101112A1314MR. BOVE: That is People's Exhibit 154 inevidence, if we could bring that up.(Whereupon, an exhibit is shown on the screens.)This is that Source Agreement; correct?Yes, it is.I think you said on Tuesday that this is a standardAMI document; am I right?15AYes.1617A document that AMI used in connection with standardoperating procedures?18AYes.1920Yesterday, you said that AMI had entered into hundredsof thousands of Source Agreements like this; correct?21AOver the years, yes.22Over decades; right?23AYes.2425ABefore.Even before you were leading AMI; right?(Nods yes).Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13611MR. BOVE: Now,if you can please zoom in on the234payment line.So, I think you testified on Tuesday that the standardtime period for one of these agreements was 90 or 120 days?5AYes.6And, here, somebody--there's a blank in a template;7right?8You see where it says, "Exclusivity period"?9AYes.1011A121314And somebody filled in "three months" or 90 days?That's correct.Do you see the payment line where it says, "Payableupon publication as set forth below"?AYes.151617A1819And so, there was no money due to Mr. Sajudin whenthis agreement was signed; correct?That's correct.And you believed that if this story was true, it wasworth a lot of money; right?20AYes.2122What I'm asking about now is your what was in yourmind in 2015 as this was happening.23Okay?24AI understand.25So, when it was reported to you that somebody wasLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13621saying the things that Mr. Sajudin was saying, you believed2that if those were true, it could be the biggest National3Enquirer article ever?4AThat is correct.5And I think you testified about the Enquirer's6coverage of Elvis Presley's death; right?7AYes.8910I think, if I'm recollecting correctly, there wereabout 6.5 million sales associated with the National Enquirer'scoverage of that death?11AThat is correct.And you thought that if this story wastrue,1213Mr. Sajudin's claim was true, that it could sell 10 millionNational Enquirers; right?1415AI did.16So, if this story was true, you were gonna run it;17correct?18AYes.19Because you had a fiduciary obligation to do that;20right?21AThat is correct.2223It would have made business sense, to put it mildly,to run such an article if it was true; correct?24AYes.25And assoon as you heard the story about Mr. Sajudin,Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13631you knew that to be the case; right?2AI did.34It took AMI a little bit of time to verify or try toverify the story; right?5AYes.678And I think you testified that it wasn't reallycompleted, you didn't have a firm sense of it until lateDecember 2015?9AThat's correct.1011So, several weeks, maybe a month, at least, after thisagreement was signed; right?12AYes.1314And at some point in the time between when thisagreement was signed and when the vetting process wascompleted, Mr. Sajudin started to make threats; correct?1516AYes.1718AHe was threatening to go someplace else; right?That is correct.19And that is why you decided to pay Mr. Sajudin20$30,000; correct?21AYes.22Because you could not have him taking his story to23another publication if it was true; right?24AThat's correct.25It would be too great a loss to AMI to lose control ofLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

12345сл60D. Pecker-such a story, if true; right?AYes.Cross/BovePage 1364MR. BOVE: Mr. Bernik, could you please publishPeople's 155. This is also in evidence.right?(Whereupon, an exhibit is shown on the screens.)So, this is the Amendment to that Source Agreement;Yes, it is.And this one is dated December 17, 2015.78A91011AYes.Do you see that at the bottom?12And this agreement was entered into after Mr. Sajudin13 started to make those threats; correct?14AYes.1516And in exchange for $30,000, Mr. Sajudin agreed to theexclusivity period in perpetuity; right?17AYes.1819forever?This is where you bought the rights of the story20AI did.2122232425And that is because it was still possible, in yourmind, when this agreement was signed, that the story was true?AThat's correct.And you could not walk away from that possibility,however small it might be; right?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1365Walking away from Mr. Sajudin's story would not make1AYes.234ANo.5business sense; right?It would not have been your standard operatingprocedure; correct?okay.MR. BOVE: We can take that down.Thank you.I want to talk a little about Ms. McDougal, if that'sYes.Just to be clear, President Trump did not pay you anymoney related to Karen McDougal; right?1067ANo.89101112A131415ANo.1617A181920Okay?21AOkay.22Nor did Cohen%; correct?Correct.I want to focus on 2016, when there were negotiationsrelating to and involving Ms. McDougal.When you first learned about this story, you23 understood that Ms. McDougal did not want to publish it;24correct?25AYes.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13661She did not want to; right?2AShe did not want to.3What she wanted to do was restart her career;correct?4AYes.5сл106And after you learned that, you thought there was anopportunity for AMI to help her do that; right?7AYes.And that's because she had worked before on Men's89 Fitness magazine; right?10AYes.1112I think she was one of the first females that was onthe cover of that magazine;right?13AYes.14In '99?15AThat's right.16Was that after you started?17ARight after I started.1819A2021So, you and Ms. McDougal went back, in a way; right?I didn't know her.But, you knew that she had done work on that cover forAMI; right?22ANot until I was told in that June of 2016.2324So, is it fair to say that when you first started outat AMI, it took some time to get up to speed; right?25AWell, first, that--the Men's Fitness, that title wasLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1Page 1367a weaker magazine, so we purchased it. The purchase was in2- 2002.3One of those purchases that involved4Mr. Schwarzenegger in 2002, 2003?5AYes.6789Thank you for clarifying that.I'm sorry about that.Getting back to 2016, you understood that Ms. McDougal'smain interest was not publishing the story; correct?10AYes.111213And you testified about a meeting that you had withone of your investor's offices in New Jersey; right?AYes.You said that President Trump got through to you onthe phone during that meeting?Was that at Chatham Asset Management?141516AYes.1718AYes.1920A2122and says,232425AWhat was the presentation that day?I was reading the quarterly results, biannual results.Somebody interrupts the meeting, that presentation,"President Trump is on the phone;" right?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Overruled.Didn't say "President" Trump.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1368You knew you had an important10678910111212AYes.345He said, "Donald Trump is on the phone."When you got on the phone, you knew that it wasPresident Trump; right?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Sustained.You talked to President Trump that day in connectionwith the meeting; right?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT:What's your objection?MR. STEINGLASS: He wasn't "President" Trump in13June of 2016.14151617THE COURT:Sustained.MR. BOVE: If I could just have a moment, Judge?Q I just want to make sure we're talking about the samemeeting.18Okay?1920There was a meeting where you said you gave an investors'presentation to; right?21AYes.22During that meeting, you received a phone call; right?23AYes.24Who was on the phone?25ADonald Trump.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-1When was the meeting?2AJune of 2016.3Cross/BovePage 1369And during that conversation, during that call, youdiscussed Karen McDougal; right?45AYes.678And you told President Trump that Ms. McDougal did notwant to publish the story; correct?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.9THE COURT: Sustained.10What do you remember about the phone call?11AMr. Trump called mymy office ineither it was12in New York or Florida. And since I was in Chatham, New Jersey,13my assistant transferred the call to--to Chatham.14And when the call came in, the assistant in the office15small officecame over and asked me to come out, that Donald1617Trump was on the phone.And when I spoke to Mr. Trump, he said that he wanted to18know what washe asked me--he said, "I spoke to Michael.19202122And I wanted to talk to you about Karen McDougal."So, he said: Is it true that there's a Mexican group that'slooking to buy the story for $8 million?"And I said, "No, I don't believe that's true."23Two, he said that--that(pause)um(pause)I24want to recollect it completely.25Thank you.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1370(pause)he normallyoh. Ithat, "This story about Karen, since she's1AHe said that, um2said that34claiming that she has a relationship with you, should be takenoff the market."5And Mr. Trump said, "I don't normallyI don't buy6789101112stories because it always gets out."And then I said, "I still think you should buy the story."And Mr. Trump said to me, "I'll speak to Michael, and he'llget back to you."And so,as you sit here today, you remember thatduring that conversation, you said to President Trump: It is myunderstanding that she doesn't want her story published?13A(Pause). Yes. I did. I remember saying that.14And you testified about that--15AYes.16--at this trial; right?17AYes.18On April 23rd?19AYes.202122I just wanted to make sure and remember.question.Yeah. I appreciate it. Sometimes it takes another23A24That's correct.I want to talk a little bit about Chatham Asset25 Management; okay?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

1AOkay.D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13716A78A9102345сл10There was later a lawsuit involving Chatham, relatingto some of those events in the Summer of 2016; right?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Overruled.Can you clarify about with respect to lawsuits?iPayments sued Chatham Asset Management; correct?The former chairman of iPayment, the company. Not thecompany itself.And you were named as a defendant in that lawsuit;11right?12A1314Yes.And the allegations that are at issue in the lawsuitwere going on in that Summer of 2016; correct?15AYes.1617And you talked about the issues of iPayments withCohen; right?18AI did.1920right?And you also tried to get Cohen a job at iPayments;21ANo.222324A25I can clarify that.Please.Michael Cohen pitched--he requested for me aposition at iPayment. He was looking to become the newLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1372president, the new chairman, because the former chairman wasterminated.1234A567Did you talk to the chairman of iPayments about that?No.I spoke to Chatham about it. And they had no interest inMichael Cohen.Do you recall telling the Federal Government that thechairman of iPayments did not want Cohen to take Pecker's89place?10MR. STEINGLASS:Objection.111213THE COURT:14MR. BOVE:15161718192021THE COURT: Sustained.MR. BOVE: Judge, can we have a quick sidebar?Yes.Thank you.(Whereupon, the following proceedings were heldat sidebar:)MR. BOVE:Thank you, Judge.I don't mean to be dense. I just want to makesure I'm following the objection right now.I asked if he recalled saying that. He said no.My next plan was to refresh his recollection that22that was said.232425THE COURT: What's your objection?MR. STEINGLASS: It's two-fold.One, I think that was an improper impeachmentLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1373Second of all, it's more, basically, a relevance1technique.2345сл10678910111213141516171819202122232425objection.What is the relevance of the fact that MichaelCohen tried to get a job, that there was lawsuitsinvolving companies that have nothing to do with this?MR. BOVE: The relevance is that Cohen andMr. Pecker were working together personally, separate andapart from what President Trump was doing.THE COURT: I'll allow it.MR. BOVE: Thank you, Judge.(Whereupon, the following proceedings were heldin open court:)(Whereupon, Senior Court Reporter Lisa Kramskyrelieves Senior Court Reporter Laurie Eisenberg, and thetranscript continues on the next page.)Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

12345сл106D. Pecker*******-Cross/BovePage 1374(The following proceedings are continued fromprevious page.)THE COURT:Thank you.The objection is overruled.7CROSS-EXAMINATION89BY MR. BOVE:So before that break, we were talking about iPayments;10right?11A12Yes.And my question had been: Did you and Mr. Cohen13 discuss Cohen getting a job at iPayments; right?14AYes.15And you did discuss that with Cohen; correct?16AI did.171819And I think you said, before the break, that you didnot discuss Cohen getting a job with iPayments, directly withiPayments; right?20AThat's correct.2122And I think you said before that sidebar that you hadonly discussed that with Chatham Asset Management; right?23AYes.2425But do you recall telling the Federal Government thatthe Chairman of iPayments did not want Cohen to take Pecker'sLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13751place; right?2MR. STEINGLASS:3THE COURT:45сл1678Objection.Sustained.That's consistent with what he testified to.In this same time frame, in the summer of 2016, youwere also talking to Mr. Cohen about Mark Cuban; right?AYes.の1011And Mr. Cohen was looking at potentially working withMr. Cuban; right?AThat's what Michael Cohen told me.And he actually asked you for a little bit of helparound that; right?1213AYes, he did.1415He asked you, did he not, to send paparazzi tophotograph the meeting between Cohen and Cuban; right?16AYes.1718And he made that request because he said that wouldput pressure on President Trump to treat Cohen differently;19right?20AYes.21And you agreed to help him do that; right?22AYes.2324To put a little pressure through the National Enquireron President Trump; correct?25AI wasn'tno, that's not correct.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1Page 1376You understood that the natural consequence of thatpublication would be to put a little pressure on him; right?23AMichael Cohen never said that to me.4567My question is whether you understood that publishingphotographs like that, even if it wasn't going to be harmful,could put a little pressure on President Trump; right?AYes.891011121314A1516MR. BOVE: And, Mr. Bernik, could we take a lookat People's 156 in evidence.(Displayed.)And this is the Agreement between AMI and Ms. McDougalfrom August of 2016; right?That's correct.And this Agreement looks a little bit different interms of formatting from the one with Mr. Sajudin; right?MR. BOVE: And, Mr. Bernik, can you please zoom inon Paragraph 3.17AYes.1819202122232425AYes.(Displayed.)And you were asked some questions by Mr. Steinglassabout this provision of the Agreement; right?Do you remember that?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1Page 1377And I think that one of the questions was whether thisdocument was set up so that it would disguise the other23provisions in the Agreement.4Do you remember that question?5AYes, I do.607And I think you said: "Yes, this paragraph wasdesigned to disguise the other paragraphs;" right?8AYes.910But there were actually very real paragraphs in thisagreement; right?11AYes.12MR. BOVE: And you can zoom back out, please,131415A1617181920Mr. Bernik.Very real obligations for AMI; correct?Yes.And, in fact, you told the Federal Prosecutors that youbelieved it was critically important to follow the words of theMcDougal Agreement because you did not want any illegal orcampaign violations that would open the door to legal action byMcDougal?21MR.22STEINGLASS:Objection.Sustained.23THE COURT:You told the Federal Prosecutors that the otherprovisions of this agreement mattered; right?2425AYes, I did.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1378And it created real obligations by AMI; right?12AYes.34was5сл10678910And you didn't tell the Federal Prosecutors that thisa disguise; correct?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Sustained.MR. BOVE: Mr. Bernik, could you please zoom in onParagraph 1.(Displayed.)111213And, so, do you see at the start of this paragraph,there is a reference to two years from the effective date?AYes.And, so,that's basically a 24-month period on thispart of the Agreement?That's correct.And AMI purchased the rights to use Ms. McDougal's name141516A171819right?20AYes.21and likeness in 24 columns in Star Magazine, if I have that22And you also purchased the rights for 24 columns usingMs. McDougal's name and likeness in OK! Magazine; right?23AYes.2425AYes.Four posts per month in Radar Online?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

12A345сл106D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1379That's 96 columns over two years; right?That's correct.MR. BOVE: And if you could zoom in, please, nowon Paragraph 2.(Displayed.)78A910This relates to magazine covers; right?Yes.And so these are other things that AMI purchased fromMs. McDougal in connection with this agreement; right?1112AYes.And these were real obligations on the part of AMI;13 correct?14AYes, they were.151718A192016And in exchange for all of these things, the columns,the block posts, the magazine covers, and the story rights, AMIagreed to pay Ms. McDougal $150,000; right?That's correct.But during the negotiations, Ms. McDougal was notfocused on cash%; was she?21AI'm sorry,could you repeat that again.2223Ms. McDougal was not focused on cash during thenegotiations; correct?24ANot focused on?25Cash. Money. Not focused onLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1A2345A67Page 1380Money? The cash amount wasn't a primary portion of theAgreement.What Ms. McDougal was to focus on was the provisions inParagraphs 1 and 2; right?Oh, for her, yes.Because, as you said earlier this morning, she waslooking to restart her career; is that correct?8AYes, that's right.910And she had started part of her career with then Men'sFitness; right?11AYes.121314A15And which was part of, at this point, in 2016, an AMIpublication; right?That's right.And you, at that point, viewed AMI as making a goodrelaunching point for Ms. McDougal; correct?A It was all part of this Agreement.And there was actually a video conference, a161718192021AIt was a video conference; correct.22presentation to Ms. McDougal about the types of things that AMIcould do for her; correct?And during that video conference, the presentation23 touched on the promotion2425--the promotional opportunities thatMs. McDougal was looking for; correct?AYes.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove12A3Page 1381And that was in the end of June of 2016; right?That's correct.And during that video conference, there was nodiscussion of a monetary payment; correct?45AThat's correct.678And AMI told Ms. McDougal that her promotion in AMImagazines would be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars;correct?9AYes.10And nobody was lying to her; right?11ANo.1213And, in fact, AMI's publications ended up running morethan 65 stories in Ms. McDougal's name; right?14AYes.1516screen,When AMI signed this agreement, the one that's on theyou believed it had a legitimate business purpose;17correct?18AI did.192021MR. BOVE: You can take that down.Thank you.Can we now take a look at People's 158, which is in22evidence.23(Displayed.)2425Q Do you recall talking to Mr. Steinglass about thisLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker1document yesterday?2AYes.3-Cross/BovePage 1382And I think you said that this is an invoice from Keith4 Davidson; right?5AI did.60correct?This is actually AMI's record relating to the invoice;78AYes.9And so it's not the invoice itself?10A11It's an AMI record as you said; that's correct.Reflecting whatever Mr. Davidson's invoice said;12right?13AYes, that's correct.1415And AMI had employees who created a record like thiswhen it got an invoice; right?16AYes.171819And as far as you understood it, the standard operatingprocedure was for the employee to take the information from theinvoice and put it in the system?20AThat is correct.212223MR. BOVE: And, Mr. Bernik, if we could zoom in onthe bottom row, please.(Displayed.)2425Q Do you see that, the headers on these columns:Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13831Account, Department, and Operating Unit?2AYes.345A60There were people at AMI and the accounting departmentwho completed that information; right?That's correct.And they did that based on whatever invoiceMr. Davidson sent; correct?78AYes.910A1112A13You didn't put those codes yourself?No, I did not.You trusted people to do it accurately; right?I did.And that was AMI's standard operating procedure?14AYes.1516at17MR. BOVE: Mr. Bernik, can we please take a lookGovernment Exhibit 159, which is also in evidence.(Displayed.)181920A2122You testified about this one yesterday also?I did.And I think you said that it is a general ledger detailfor the $150,000 transaction with Mr. Davidson?23AThat's correct.2425And, basically, the data from the document that we justlooked at, People's 158, feeds into a general ledger entry likeLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13841this; right?2AYes, that's correct.3And that's an automated process; right?4AYes.56correct?Based on information that Mr. Davidson provided;7AYes.8And that you trusted your accounting people to input;9correct?10AI did.111213MR. BOVE: If we could zoom in on the right sideof this so that we can catch the date column, please.(Displayed.)141516It's a little blurry there, but do you see the columnheading that says "Date Due"?17AYes.18And I thinkI think there is an 8/9/2018 after that.19Do you see that?20AThat is correct.21And you were asked some questions about this yesterday;22right?23AYes.2425thatAnd it wasn't clear to you from this document whetherthis was the date of the invoice or the payment; right?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1385Because those are the types of details that are hard to1AYes, that's correct.234keep track of for someone at your level; right?5AYes.And you had a whole department who was focused on6keeping track of those details?7AThat's correct.8They had standard operating procedures; right?9AYes.10And you trusted their work?11AYes.12MR. BOVE: Can we take a look at People's13Exhibit 160, please.14(Displayed.)1516MR. BOVE: I'm sorry.I think it's 161.17(Displayed.)1819202122MR. BOVE: Let me correct myself for one minute.It's my fault.People's Exhibit 160, Page 2.You remember this from yesterday; right?23AYes.24And there is some handwriting on this document.Do you25see that?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1386And you testified that one of the people who approvedthis voucher was Chris Polimeni?1AYes.234AYes.5слHe was AMI's CFO at the time?106AThat's correct.789MR. BOVE: And, Mr. Bernik, can you zoom in on thebottom third of the document.(Displayed.)101112A13141516A17There are some other approval signatures here; right?Yes.It looks like there is a signature by a Controller,with the last name "Brady."Do you know who that is?That's Stephanie Brady, yes.And then to the left of that there is a signature, "AP18Approver."1920A21Do you know who that is?I think that's LR. That's Liz Ruotolo.So there are people at AMI you trusted to processrecords, right, like this; right?2223AYes.2425Q To review and approve them; right?Correct?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1387And you were comfortable that they were followingprocedures in 2016; right?And there are no false entries in any of these records;are there?MR. BOVE: You can take that down, please.And if we go back now to People's 156 in evidence.This is the agreement with Ms. McDougal.(Displayed.)1AYes.234AYes.567ANo.89101112131415AYes.161718AYes.192021AYes.222324A25You testified that you consulted a campaign attorneyabout this agreement; right?And you also said that you consulted AMI's generalcounsel; correct?And I think you testified on direct that you toldMichael Cohen the agreement was, quote, "Bulletproof?"And that is a term that you used to convey that thereis no legal ramifications; right?That's correct.That's what you said when--that's what you meant whenLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1you said "Bulletproof" to Mr. Cohen?2AYes.3And I would like to take a look at the trial4 transcript.5Page 1388MR. BOVE: And this is for everybody, please,106Mr. Bernik.7Page 1128, lines 1 through 18.(Displayed.)8910And if you can take a look at that, Mr. Pecker, and letme know when you are done, please.11(Pause.)12***13AI'm done.1415161718And, so, do you see the questions beginning at Line 12?And I will read it:"And was that all the campaign attorney reviewed, as far asyou know?"Do you see that?19AYes.2021222324And you said: "As far as I know, yes."And I just want to make sure that I understand the what'sbeing said here.Is it your testimony that you withheld information from theattorneys providing advice about the Agreement?25ANo. I did not withhold information on the Agreement.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1Page 1389QAnd so you didn't do anything inappropriate when you2à consulted counsel relating to the Agreement with Karen McDougal;3did you?4ANo. I did not.5106And when you told Mr. Cohen that the Agreement was"Bulletproof," you meant it; right?7AYes, I did.8Because you had legal advice?9ARight.10MR. BOVE: We can take that down.11Thanks.1213Now, you said that Karen McDougal had an attorney inconnection with the negotiations with AMI; right?14AYes.15Keith Davidson; if I have it right?16AYes.17And Mr. Davidson was one of the major sources for Dylan18Howard also; right?19AYes.20And so he was an attorney for Ms. McDougal; correct?21AYes.2223But at the same time providing information directly toMr. Howard; if I have that right?24AYes.25And was that a normal structure in AMI's sourceLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1Page 1390networks to use attorneys as sources of information about their2clients?3AI would say that this was a unique situation.4Mr. Davidson was a unique situation; right?5слAYes.106And you are a sophisticated guy; right?7AYes.8We can agree, you've had lawyers before; right?9AYes.10We just talked about some of them; right?11AYes.1213And you had lawyers and you had meetings with theGovernment%; correct?14AYes.1516And you also worked with lawyers in situations thatwere less stressful?17AYes.18On deals when you were making money; right?19ARight.202122And, generally speaking, you expected your lawyers notto provide information to third parties about what you discussedwith them%3B correct?2324MR. STEINGLASS:Objection.THE COURT:Sustained.25Q You expected confidentiality from your attorneys;Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13911correct?2MR. STEINGLASS:Objection.3THE COURT:Sustained.45Q So you said that Mr. Davidson was the only situationthat AMI had where there was an attorney being used as a source;6right?7ANot the only one. I don't know of other ones, but I'm8sure there have been.9So you don't know if there were any others, other than10Mr. Davidson?11AThe only one that I know of wasis Mr. Davidson.1213141516AMr. Davidson knew Michael Cohen too; right?I found out that, yes, he did. I subsequently foundthat out afterwards.When you say "afterwards," when did you learn that?A It was probably right, previously before we signed theKaren McDougal Agreement. So probably it was around August 5thor 6th.171819How did20A21The Agreement was signed in June.I'm sorry?22ANo, I'm saying the first time I heard--I heard Keith2324The time--25Davidson's name was June 20th.to answer your question, the time that I heardabout that he knew Michael Cohen, I didn't know that untilLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1392around the end of July or early August.in June 2016, you learned that Dylan Howard wasusing an attorney as a major source of information for National12So,34Enquirer articles; correct?51067A I wouldn't classify him as a major attorney.(Laughter from the audience.)8910Exactly.What I am getting at is whether Mr. Davidson was a majorsource for Dylan Howard?11AWe had hundreds of sources.121314He was one of many.You recall testifying in the Grand Jury with theDistrict Attorney; correct?15AYes.16That was in 2023; right?17AYes.1819And just like in the Federal Grand Jury, you were underoath; correct?20AYes.2122There was a court reporter there taking down yourquestions and your answers; right?23AYes.2425And do you recall describing during your testimonyMr. Davidson as one of your two major sources?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13931AOne of two major sources for Dylan Howard.2So3ANotand Dylan Howard is one editor of fifty4the Editor-in-Chief, but there are fifty several other--――he'slet me5put it this way, several other editors all have their own6sources.7I don't know, when you take it down to those levels, that8how many of them were attorneys, how many of them--how many9times have they used that, you--I don't know that, I only10heard that from Dylan.11I understand12AAnd that's what I was answering to.1314fair.I appreciate the clarification, and I think that'sI'm not trying to stretch it.15ANO, no, no. I'm just trying to explain it.161718I appreciate that.And so Davidson was one of Dylan Howard's major sources,that's my point?19AThat's correct.20And he was also friends with Cohen; correct?21AYes.22And you didn't learn that, that Cohen-Davidson23 connection until right before the Agreement was signed; right?24AThat's correct.25And you don't know what Cohen and Davidson were workingLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

12345сл106D. Peckeron the side; do you?AI don't.-Cross/BovePage 1394MR. BOVE: Can we take a look at People's 161 inevidence, please.(Displayed.)This is that invoice that we've looked at a couple oftimes; right?789AYes.1011A12And this is not an AMI record; is it?No, it's not.And do you recall some questions on Tuesday about a13 thumb drive?14AYes.1516Mr. Steinglass brought you a thumb drive and he askedyou questions about documents on the thumb drive; right?17AYes.1819"And you said: "There are documents on this drive thatI've reviewed,' correct?20AYes.2122Objection.2324And you said that these were all AMI records; correct?MR. STEINGLASS:THE COURT: Sustained.You testified on Tuesday that each document on the25thumb drive was--it was part of the business of AMI to makeLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13951and keep these records; right?2AThat's correct.345106And that was a mistake with respect to this one; right?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Sustained.You just said this is not an AMI record; correct?7AThat's correct.89This is one of the documents that Mr. Rotsteinprepared; right?10AYes.11And he was not an employee when he prepared the12invoice; right?13ANo.1415And do you remember testifying yesterday that you sawthis document around the time that it was prepared?16AYes.17And that was a mistake too; right?18ACan you clarify that?19You didn't actually see this document in 2016; did20you?21A22I saw the document when itit over for the billing to Cohen.when Rotstein was sending23In 2016?24A--25I signed the I signed the original Agreement andthen, subsequently, the invoice was sent over so I would haveLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 13961seen the invoice.23Do you remember having a meeting in 2019 with theDistrict Attorney's office?4AYes.5106A78A6Q10A11It was a long meeting; right?Yes.There were many questions; right?Yes.And there were many Prosecutors; correct?Yes.It was a full room that day; right?12AYes.13You had your lawyers there too; right?14AYes.1516And on the Prosecution side, do you remember thatsomebody was typing?17AYes.18Maybe more than one person; right?19AI don't remember that. I remember one person.20QOne person was typing a lot; correct?21AYes.222324Ω Do you recall that during that meeting, you told theProsecutors that: "The first time I saw this document wasprobably in 2017 when we were going through the document25 production for SDNY."Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1397A Can I trouble you? Could I see that?1Do you recall that?2345сл1067Yes.MR. BOVE: Mr. Bernik, this is for the parties,Mr. Pecker and the Court, please.Defense A108.(Shown to the witness.)891011And, so, I want to start just by orienting you to lookat the top, just the date and the participants.(Pause.)12**13AYes.I can see the top. I reviewed the top.14MR. BOVE: And, now, if we could go to the page15with Bates ending 061.16AYes.1718MR. BOVE: And zoom in on the top half, please.(Displayed.)192021And do you see the question says: "Why was it called aflat fee for advisory services by somebody named Walsh?"22AYes.23And so that's a phrase from the invoice; right?24AYes, it is.25And so at this part of the meeting you're being askedLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

12D. Peckerabout the invoice; correct?AYes.-Cross/BovePage 1398345"NO,And do you see at the top of the page where you said:not in 2016. First time I saw this document was probablyin 2017, when we were going through the document production for6SDNY?"7AWell, now seeing this, I clarified it too. This89statement is correct.The statement in 2019 is correct?10AThe statement in 2019 is correct.1112A131415Thank you.That was the first time.And just so the record is clear, the mistake that wasmade is that you testified yesterday that you saw the invoice in2016; right?16AYes. I made an error. I would have seen it when17what it says here.18MR. BOVE: We can take that down, please.1920And if we could bring up People's 180 in evidence.(Displayed.)2122And I'm--this is the Wall Street Journal article that23we looked at earlier; right?24AYes.25And it relates to Ms. McDougal; correct?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1399And this is the one that came out before the election;1AYes.234Aright?5Yes.And this article, it contains information about your6 Agreement with Ms. McDougal; correct?7AYes.89As well as information about the story that she hadtold Dylan Howard; right?1011AYes.It contains details about both of those issues, the12Agreement and the story?13AThat's correct.141516And I think you testified yesterday that there was someconcerns about whether Ms. McDougal violated her Agreement withAMI based on this article?17AYes.1819And you asked Dylan Howard to follow up with KeithDavidson; right?20AI did.2122remember?And there was some text messages about that; do you23AYes.24And do you remember that in the text messages Howard25 reported back that Ms. McDougal was cool and moving forward withLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14001the deal?2AYes.345And, so, as far as you knew, she didn't have anyconcerns about the content of her Agreement with AMI prior tothe election; right?6AThat's correct.78And that's what her attorney and Mr. Howard's source,Keith Davidson, were reporting to you; right?9AYes.1011And this information, the Agreement, AMI's Agreement,and the underlying details that Ms. McDougal told to DylanHoward were made public prior to the election?1213AYes.14151617MR. BOVE: We can take this down, please.You also were asked some questions by Mr. Steinglassabout Stormy Daniels.Do you remember those questions?18AYes. I was asked some questions.1920And you testified that the first time that you heardabout a potential article of Stormy Daniels was October 2016;21right?22AThat's correct.23And you said that there was a phone call from Dylan24Howard when he learned that?25AYes.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1QPage 1401And I think you said you had dinner with your wife that2night?3A45That's correct.And you told Mr. Howard that you wanted no involvementwith the story; correct?6AThat is correct.789And what you meant when you said: "No involvement withthe story" is I don't want AMI to be a part of this; right?AYes.101112And you did not consider the Stormy Daniels story to bea part of any Agreement that you had in August 2015; correct?AThat's correct.You wanted nothing to do with it; right?1314AThat's right.1516And when you said that to Mr. Howard, you were stillthe Chairman of AMI; right?17AYes.18And the CEO%; correct?19AYes.20And the President; right?21AYes.22And you were speaking for the company, and for23 yourself?24AYes.25And a few weeks later, Mr. Howard told you thatLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14021Ms. Daniels had not been paid; right?2AYes.3And it's true, isn't it, that Keith Davidson is in the4middle once again?5AYes.678Enquirer--9A101112Mr. Howard was using an attorney as a source, who wasproviding information from his client to the Nationalwell, to Dylan Howard?To Dylan Howard; that's correct.Not to AMI, because you had not authorized Dylan Howardto be speaking with Davidson; correct?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.13THE COURT: Sustained.141516Q I will break that up.You did not authorize Dylan Howard to speak to KeithDavidson about Stormy Daniels; correct?17AThat's correct.181920So anything that Dylan Howard was doing with respectto Stormy Daniels was unauthorized and outside of hisemployment?21MR.22232425STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT:Sustained.When Mr. Howard came back to you on the Stormy Danielsstory, what he said was Michael Cohen has not paid KeithDavidson; right?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1403And you were surprised to hear that?I was.1AYes.23A45слSurprised because you had told Howard to stay out ofit; right?correct?And, frankly, you were not happy to be hearing that;6AYes.789AYes.101112And, at that point, when Howard contacted you aboutthis payment, the main concern was Howard's reputation; right?AYes.13The concern was that Dylan Howard would look bad if14this payment wasn't made; right?15AYes.16And he said that to you; right?17AYes.181920He said: "It can't be that in this industry somebodypromises to pay one of my sources and that doesn't happen, Ilook bad?"21AThat is correct.22And so you and Howard called Mr. Cohen; right?23AYes.2425And you said to Mr. Cohen: "I want you to know, I'mnot paying or doing anything on this," right?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14041AYes.2And you meant it?3AI did.45AMI was not going to do anything on the Stormy Danielsstory; correct?106AYes.78You testified, I think, yesterday, about a meeting onJanuary 6th, 2017.9AYes.1011And I think you said that that meeting happened atTrump Tower; right?12AThat's correct.131415And I think you said that the way that thereason that that dates sticks out to you is that there was avery violent incident that day; right?--the16AYes.17At the Fort Lauderdale Airport?18AYes.19I think five people died that day?20AYes.21And then, obviously, there was a lot of coverage of22that; right?23AYes.2425And, so, in your memory, you sort of pegged it, thedate of that meeting to that incident; right?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1405And I think you said that on that day, January 6th,1AYes.2342017, you were let into President Trump's office?AYes.5By Ms. Graff, Rhona Graff?And that when you walked in, President Trump wassitting at his desk; right?And there was some people gathered around him; right?Correct.And what he said wasLauderdale shooting; right?they were discussing the FortAnd you heard some of that conversation; right?106AYes.789AYes.1011A121314AYes.1516AYes.171819AYes.202122AYes.232425AYes.And some of the people who were who you said werethere that day, Reince Priebus?He had been named the White House Chief of Staff inabout November of 2016; right?And you testified you saw Mike Pompeo standing aroundPresident Trump's desk that day; right?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1406And he had been named his Secretary of State oncePresident Trump took office; right?1Q23AYes.45A60right?And you testified that you saw Sean Spicer; right?Yes.And he became President Trump's Press Secretary;78AThat's correct.9And you said that you saw James Comey; right?10AYes.11Who, at that time, was the FBI Director; right?12AYes.131415And so I just want to make sure that I understand thepicture that you have of the meeting, everybody that I describedas standing around President Trump's desk?16AYes.17President Trump is seated?18AYes.1920nationalAnd Ms. Graff led you into an ongoing discussion of aof a domestic national security incident?21AI was in the--when youwhenMr. Trump has a222324large office, and I was by the door while they werediscussingthey were talking to Mr. Trump.But you overheard some of the conversation, you said?25AI didn't hear the words, but I heard just that theLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14071people were talking.2And I think you said that there was a sort of a joke3made by President Trump about you knowing more about the4Fort Lauderdale situation than the other people in the room?5AI don't think he was referring to Fort Lauderdale, it67was a joke just saying that I knew more about all ofinformation; that's all he was referring to as a joke.--about8910Okay. And you know that following that meeting,there were some issues between President Trump and Jim Comey;right?11Objection.1213MR. STEINGLASS:THE COURT:Sustained.MR. BOVE: Your Honor, can we have a sidebar,14please?1516THE COURT: Sure.(At Sidebar.)171819202122ask--THE COURT: I want to hear what the objection is.MR. STEINGLASS:the relevance is.I'm finding it hard to see whatMR. BOVE: I want to lay a foundation so I cancan we do this out of the presence of the witness,232425Judge?THE COURT: Is it possible to slide over this way?THE COURT REPORTER: Yes, your Honor.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

12345слD. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1408MR. BOVE: I intend to lay a foundation, Judge,that Mr. Pecker was well aware of events surroundingMr. Comey.He was well aware of the subsequent investigations106at issue and that connection with this investigation,Mr. Comey made emphatically clear that on January 26th,789101112131415161718192021222324252017, was at Trump Tower with a classified briefing in anindividual meeting in a conference room and not at his deskand that there was a very intense conversation.And the point of that cross is to illustrate thatthe witness has misremembered what he saw that day when hetalked about Jim Comey, because there was nothing to talkabout regarding Fort Lauderdale.THE COURT: That's an awful lot of information tobring out just to get to the point that he misrememberedsomething.MR. BOVE: This witness is a critical witness, andhis memoryTHE COURT: I think you are doing a good job withhis memory.I don't think you need to go there.(Sidebar concluded.)THE COURT: The objection is sustained.MR. BOVE: Mr. Bernik, can we just take a look atLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

8910111213141516171819202122232425D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 140912Page 1213 of the transcript.(Displayed.)3**********4And--5слMR. BOVE: Thank you.Can you please zoom in.1067think it's lines 21 through 24.(Displayed.)And, Mr. Pecker, this is testimony that you gave ofMR. STEINGLASS: Objection, Judge.I think this is being displayed--transcript being displayed to the jury here.this is theTHE COURT: Can you take that down, please.Please approach.(At Sidebar.)THE COURT: All right.MR. BOVE: I don't mean to run afoul of your rules;I have done that this morning already.THE COURT: You did do that this morning already.I found it really unusual.There was no objection, so I allowed it, but thereis an objection now.MR. BOVE: This is evidence, Judge. This is thetranscript. Why can't I receive it in and display it?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court ReporterH

12345D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1410THE COURT: Why can't you just asked the question.MR. BOVE: But I want to make my point.THE COURT:all right.Just ask the question.If he doesn't remember, then you can put that up,MR. BOVE: All right. I understand.(Sidebar concluded.)106789THE COURT: Sustained.10111213BY MR. BOVE:So you recall being asked some questions about thismeeting yesterday by Mr. Steinglass; right?14AYes.1516And when I say "this meeting," I mean the meeting onJanuary 6th of 2017; correct?17AYes.181920And do you recall that you testified that PresidentTrump said to you: "I want to thank you for handling theMcDougal situation."21Do you recall that?22AYes.23And you said that yesterday; right?24AYes.25And do you recall testifying--and then you said:Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14111"This is referring to President Trump;" right?2AYes.3Quote, "I want to--he also said, I want to thank you4for the doorman story, the doorman situation;" right?5AYes.106Do you recall saying that yesterday?7AI did.89A1011you,Was that another mistake?No.And so do you believe that President Trump said that toas you sit here right now?12AYes, I do.1314We talked a couple of times about meetings you had withFederal Prosecutors on July 26th, 2018; right?15AYes.1617And we talked about the circ*mstances, there wereFederal Prosecutors and FBI Agents; right?18AYes.19And they told you it was important to tell the truth;20correct?21A2223Yes.And you understood that not telling the truth could bea crime; right?24AYes.25It was serious business; right?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14121AYes.23And you certainly did your best to tell the truth in2018 about the January 6th, 2017 meeting and everything else;4right?5AYes; that's correct?6And do you recall saying during that meeting:"Trump789A1011did not express any gratitude to Pecker or AMI during theconversation on January 6th, 2017?"I don't recall.MR. BOVE: Mr. Bernik, if we could bring up forMr. Pecker, the parties, and the Court Defense Exhibit12A101.13(Displayed.)14151617And just to get oriented, I would like you to look atthe bottom paragraph and under the date, investigation.(Pause.)18192021Were you able to take a look? I just want to makeclear that this is the report of the meeting that we were justtalking about?22AThis isI'm sorry,can you clarify what this is23again.24If you look at the bottom, you see the date July 26th,252018.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

1A2345слD. Pecker-Cross/BoveI see July 31st there, at the bottom.That's on the right side.Do you see that's "date drafted."On the left side you see "investigation on?"AOh. July 26th.Page 1413106And that was the date of the interview; right?7AThis is the interview.8And this is the interview, you see your name in the top9left?10AYes.1112And do you recognize that address as the FederalProsecutor's address?13AYes.1415And so if you take a look at Page 20 of Defense ExhibitA101, please.16MR. BOVE: And zoom in on the top half when you17get there.18(Displayed.)19202122And so you wereme know when you've had a chance to read it.(Pause.)this iswell, take a look and let23**********2425ADid you have a chance to look at it?You wanted to know if this is the meeting? Is thatLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1414Right. If you look at the top paragraph, you see that1what you were saying?2345AYes.this is a portion of the interview where you were discussingthat January 6th, 2017 meeting; right?60And take a look at the last paragraph on the screen.7 Do you see that?8(Pause.)9101112And so I want to direct your attention to the paragraphthat says "Trump then asked Pecker."Do you see that?13AYes.14And do you see the last sentence of that paragraph?15ANow?1617AYes?I was just saying, this is the FBI's interview; is that18correct?19Is that what this is?20This is the same document that--2122the first page I justshowed you, the report of the July 26th, 2018 interview byFederal Prosecutors and the FBI; right?23ASo the FBI--these are the FBI notes?24Yes.25AYes. So the FBI notes here--what somebody is writingLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1down could be wrong.2This is not3Yesterday?I know what I testified to.4AYesterday.5Page 141560AUh-huh.And I know what I remember. This is going back to72018. I didn't recall back from--what I'm saying here is8that--9101112was1314151617(Pause.)during the FBI investigation, I know what I saidyesterday happened, so I can't reconcile what the FBI interviewif someone made a mistake or not.So you can't reconcile because what you said yesterdayis inconsistent with what's in this report; correct?AI understand.And soYes, but I wouldn't be responsible for this report.are you suggesting that the FBI made a mistake18here?19AI know what the truth is. I'm notI can't state20what the2122what's here, why this was written this way. I knowexactly what was said to me.And so your testimony yesterday is inconsistent with23what's written there?24MR. STEINGLASS:Objection.25THE COURT:Overruled.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1416A Can you repeat what you want what you asked me12again?34I'm sorry.I'm just trying to make sure that I understand it. And5 I'm not trying to put you on the spot.106THE COURT:Maybe if you could rephrase the7question.8MR. BOVE:Yes.910Your testimony yesterday is inconsistent with what'swritten in that report; right?11AYes.12MR. BOVE:13Judge, I have a couple more topics.I don't know if there is a mid morning break14planned.1516THE COURT: Sure. All right.Jurors, let's go ahead and take our mid morning17recess.18I will see you in about 15 minutes. Can you step19out.20THE COURT OFFICER: Leave your note pads on the21chairs.22All rise.23(Jury exits.)2425THE COURT: Thank you.Please have a seat.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

12too.345сл10678D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1417Mr. Pecker, you may step down and take a recess(Witness exits.)THE COURT: Mr. Bove, I'm not trying to rush you,but I just want to get a sense of where we stand?Thank you, Judge. I appreciate that.MR. BOVE:I think I have less than an hour left, that's mybest guess.910THE COURT: And I imagine that there would be11redirect after that?1213MR. STEINGLASS:I imagine.THE COURT: All right. I will see you all in a few14minutes.15161718MR. STEINGLASS: Thank you.(Recess taken, after which time Senior CourtReporter Susan Pearce-Bates relieved Senior Court ReporterLisa Kramsky.)19202122232425Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove12345сл106786101112(Continued from the previous page.)Page 1418THE CLERK: Continued case on trial, Peopleversus Donald J. Trump. Parties are present.THE COURT: Let's get the witness, please.COURT OFFICER: Witness entering.(Whereupon, the witness entered thecourtroom and was properly seated).SERGEANT: All rise. Jury entering.(Whereupon, the jury entered the courtroomand were properly seated.)THE COURT: Please be seated.THE CLERK: Case on trial continued, Peopleversus Donald J. Trump. All parties and jurors are1314present.15THE COURT: Mr. Bove.16MR. BOVE: Thank you, Judge.17CONTINUED CROSS-EXAMINATION18BY MR. BOVE:1920Q Mr. Pecker, I think you testified yesterday that inearly 2018 FBI agents came to you?21AYes.22QCan you describe what happened?23A24They came to my home. It was April 9th of 2018, andthey gave me a search warrant, and they took my phone.2525What time did they come?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1419Around, I think was it like 8:00 in the morning.1A23AThere was three.How many agents?45A106QAnd you said they searched your house?No.Just your phone?7AYes, just my phone.8How many times did you meet with the agents after9that?10AI don't remember the exact number of times.11But more than once, right?12AYes.1314A15And these were stressful meetings, right?I was with my attorneys. I felt good.You wanted it over with though, correct?16AYes.1718And eventually AMI entered into a Non-ProsecutionAgreement with the Federal, correct?19AYes, they did.20And you testified a little bit about that yesterday,21right?22A23I did.Mr. Bernik, if we can please bring up People's 18224 which is in evidence.2525This is the Non-Prosecution Agreement, correct?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1420please?You see the date at the top? Could you zoom in,1AYes.2345слAIt is not a vision test. Thank you.Yes.September 20, 2018, right?That's correct.And at the time that AMI entered into this agreement,there were negotiations going on related to some of AMI'Scorrect?1067A8910assets,11A1213AYes.14And you are part of that group, right?15AI am not part of that group, no.Can you clarify that?You know who the Hudson News Group is, right?171819202116ACan you describe the transaction, please?You just have to clarify. You asked me if I was partof Hudson News Group. No, I am not.I understand your answer.You are familiar that there was a transaction with theHudson News Group?22AThere wasa proposed transaction with the Hudson News23Group to acquire the name--to acquire the National2425Enquirer and the other two tabloids.There was a proposed deal, right?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1421At the time of that proposed deal you were still an1AYes.234AMI executive, right?AYes.567And just to clarify, when I say, at the time of theproposed deal, I mean in September of 2018. Do I have thatdate, right?8AI don't remember the exact date that we were910111213negotiating or that we had a proposed transaction with HudsonNews.Do you recall that you told the District Attorney'sOffice that the funds on that deal were in escrow at the timethis agreement was entered into?14AThat was in thethat wasthe conversations with15the District Attorney was in 2018.16One of them, correct, the meeting where we looked at1718Athe notes before the break, right?I was saying 2019 we had the meeting, yes.19And during that meeting, you told the District202122AFor--Attorney's Office that when this agreement was signed, thefunds were in escrow?at 2018? I am a little bit confused here about2324the years.Let me ask it this way, were the funds in escrow at25the time this agreement was signed?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BoveWere there negotiations ongoing?1ANo.23AYes.45слPage 1422And the deal was worth about a hundred milliondollars, right?106AThat was the proposed deal.78910And you knew that to consummate that deal, to finalizeit, you had to clear up the investigation, correct?AYes. Yes, that's correct.111213And that was ultimately written into the deal papers,that the investigations had to be resolved before the hundredmillion, approximately, could be taken out of escrow and atransaction finalized, correct?14AThat's correct.151617181920A21the2223So, in addition to the unpleasantness of sitting withthe FBI, that put some pressure on the negotiations, right?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Overruled.You can answer.From the timing standpoint, it would have added on toto the stress of the transaction.Meaning, if I understood it right, that the Federalinvestigation had to get resolved before the deal could go24 through, correct?25AThe--the reason why I am thinking is because theSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1234Page 1423transaction could have closed subject to the investigationbeing completed.The transaction could close subject to theinvestigation being completed, and at that point, the fundsremoved from escrow, right?56A789A10It would have closed.You said that it created a timing dimension to AMI'snegotiations with the Federal government?It didn't have to. There was no pressure aboutfinalizing the agreement, this agreement and the transaction,other than the transaction was subject to when the deal wasgoing to be finalized.There was no drop dead date is what I am saying, thatit had to be done by a certain time.Understood. And it created a little pressure on thenegotiations, correct?11121314151617APrice――it wasn't athere wasn't price pressure on18it.1920Well, AMI's assets are worth less to Hudson News Groupif AMI is subject to a Federal investigation, correct?21ATo Hudson News it wasthe Federal investigation is2223not going to reduce the earnings of the company, the earningsof those magazines.24If that investigation is resolved in a way that's25 favorable to AMI, right?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1424A I would say just resolved.But if AMI had been indicted, that would have affectedthe value of its assets, correct?1234AYes.567And Hudson News Group certainly would want to know ifAMI was going to be indicted, right?AYes.8Indicted means charged, right?9AYes.1011A1213And AMI wasn't charged, correct?Yes.Now, I think that yesterday you described thisagreement as a Non-Prosecution Agreement, correct?14AYes.1516And when you used those terms, you meant there was noprosecution, right?17AThat's correct.1819A2021And there are no charges in this agreement, correct?No.And this is the whole agreement, right, between AMIand the Federal government?22MR. STEINGLASS:Objection.232425THE COURT: Overruled.If you know.You can answer if you know.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker1AThank you.2Yes.3-Cross/BovePage 1425And do you recall testifying yesterday that, weadmitted to a campaign violation, do you remember saying that?45AYes.1067And that was just another mistake, right?MR. STEINGLASS:Objection.8910THE COURT: Sustained.That wasn't accurate, correct?THE COURT: You can answer.11ACan you repeat the question, again, please?1213I am going to back up on it. So you testifiedyesterday, did you not, we admitted to a campaign violation?14AYes.1516And when you said that yesterday, you were referringto this agreement, weren't you?17AYes.18And this agreement is the entire agreement between AMI19and the Federal government, correct?20AYes.2122A2324right?And there is no violation in this agreement, correct?In this agreement, no.That's why it's called a Non-Prosecution Agreement,25AYes.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

123D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1426Q Because if everybody does what they are supposed to dounder this agreement, nobody is getting prosecuted?AYes.4516And, Mr. Bernik, if we can zoom in on the first fullparagraph, please, and highlight the phrase, will notcriminally prosecute American Media Inc.78A91011Do you see that, Mr. Pecker?Yes, I do.And you were the Chairman and CEO and President of AMIat the time this agreement was executed, right?12AYes.And this is the main benefit to the AMI agreement,13 correct?The Federal government will not prosecute AMI, right?So there is no admission in this agreement of any kindof campaign violation by AMI, right?14AYes.1516AYes.17181920212223A2425MR. STEINGLASS:Objection.THE COURT: Overruled.If you know.You can answer if you know.Could you repeat that again?Yes.There is no admission by AMI in this agreement of aSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker1campaign violation, correct?2ANo.3-Cross/BovePage 14274And if we can zoom out, please, Mr. Bernik.Mr. Pecker, just to be clear, you were on the Board ofDirectors at the time this agreement was signed?56AYes, I was.7If we89101112paragraph.can zoom in to the bottom part of the firstCould you just read that for us, Mr. Pecker?A AMI accepts and acknowledges as true the facts setforth in the statement of facts. Counsel for AMI herebyrepresents and warrants that the Board of Directors hasauthorized counsel to enter into this agreement.as the CEO of AMI, you reviewed this agreement,1314SO,15right?16A1718Yes.And also in your capacity as a member of the Board ofDirectors you reviewed this agreement, correct?19AYes.202122And I don't want to get into the substance ofcommunications with attorneys, but you consulted attorneysabout this agreement, right?23AYes.24And you looked at it carefully, correct?25AYes.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1Page 1428QAnd now,Mr. Bernik, if you canzoom in on the234· carry-over paragraph on the second page.And so, this language refers to the time period of theagreement, right?5AYes.106And so,this agreement is still active, correct?7A It was signed in September of '18. So, itthe8agreement was for three years.9Well, do you see the second entry that, the date on101112131415A161718A19202122232425which all prosecutions arising out of the conduct described inthe opening paragraph of this agreement are final?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Sustained.What is your understanding of what that means?I am not sure I understand what I am being asked.My question is, what is your understanding of what thelanguage that's highlighted on the screen means?Don't I have to look at one first?That's fine. Yes, I can hand you a copy.A It says for a period of three years from the start ofthis agreement.And it says the date on which all prosecutions arisingout of the conduct described in the opening paragraph of theagreement are final. I don't understand.Do you remember, yesterday, answering questions aboutSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bovethe provisions in the U.S. Code by Mr. Steinglass?Page 1429And those were hard questions because you weren't surewhat those provisions meant, right?12AYes.345AYes.678のI am not going to make this a law school exam either.I am sorry.Let's look at――Mr. Bernik, if you can zoom in onthe next paragraph on the page.Can you read to yourself that first sentence?10AThat the agreement can be resigned?11Do you see the phrase, false, incomplete or misleading12 testimony or information?13AYeah.141516So, basically, this paragraph gives the Federalgovernment some options if they determine that AMI, or itsrepresentatives, have given false, incomplete or misleading17 testimony or information, correct?If we can zoom in on the bottom paragraph of thispage. So that first sentence refers to the period from the18AYes.19202122A2324date of the agreement until November 6, 2018. Do you see that?Yes, I do.There was, basically, a period of time where theparties agreed to keep the agreement, to some extent, secret?25AYes,that's correct.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

12345слD. Pecker-Cross/BoveQ And the purpose of this provision wasPage 1430to give AMI anopportunity to coordinate credit coverage arisingto the announcement of this agreement, right?A When you say, credit coverage.To negotiate with financial institutions.you mean about notifying them?--relating106AYou--7Well, do you remember?8AWell, that's the thing.When youI am a little910confused when you say about credit coverage.Let's look to the next page, and please zoom in on the11text.121314Do you see the reference to AMI's underwriters,auditors or insurers for the limited purpose of negotiationsregarding credit decisions?15AYes, it was――it wasit advised them of the161718agreement.To give AMI an opportunity to protect itselffinancially when this was announced, right?19AYes.2021And as CEO of AMI, did that happen? Did AMI makethose communications and notifications?22AYes, we did.23You notified insurers and underwriters, correct?24AYeah.25And those notifications provided a copy of thisSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1431agreement, right?I wouldn't know if the agreement was shared with them.But the substance of the agreement was disclosed,12A34right?5A678910Yes.And in connection with those disclosures, it wasrepresented to the financial institutions that the agreementwas factually accurate, right?AYes.1112Because you know from your experience that in orderfor the financial institutions to make credit decisions, theyneed to have the complete information about the issue, right?13AThat's correct.1415And so, you testified yesterday about a statement offacts attached to this agreement, right?16AYes.1718And if we can take a look at the next page, please.And this is that Statement of Facts, right?19AYes.20And it was incorporated into the agreement, correct?21AYes.22It was something that you approved as the CEO of AMI,23right?24AYes.25And it was something that, as a member of the Board ofSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1432Directors, you reviewed and approved as indicated in the123AYes.agreement itself, right?45Can we zoom in on paragraph three, please?Now, you testified earlier this morning about theAugust 2015 meeting. Do you remember that testimony?67AYes.8910correct?11AYes.Do you remember that you confirmed that during theAugust 2015 meeting there was no discussion on catch and kill,141516171812And during the August 2015 meeting there was no13 discussion of a financial component to any agreement withPresident Trump and Michael Cohen, correct?A There was a discussion about that I was going to bethe eyes and ears of the campaign. And there was a discussionthat I would be notifying Michael Cohen of any women that werein the process of or going to be selling stories. And I would19notify Cohen that they would be available, and they would20either have to buy them or take them off the market or kill2122them in some manner.Are you testifying now that there was a discussion of23the kill agreement?24MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.25THE COURT:Sustained.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14331AI said, sell a story.234I would like to go back for a moment to the October2019 meeting that we discussed a few times today, the meetingyou had at the District Attorney's Office.5AYes.6Do you recall that this provision of the agreement was7891011discussed during that meeting?A The August '15, the August meeting you are saying?Let me back up and ask a better question.Do you recall that paragraph three of the agreementthat's on the screen was discussed during the October 201912meeting?13AYes.1415And do you recall that your attorneys told theDistrict Attorney's Office, in your presence--16171819202122232425meeting.MR. STEINGLASS: Objection, Judge. Objection.THE COURT: Approach.(Discussion is held at side-bar, on therecord.)MR. STEINGLASS: So, he is trying to impeach thewitness by what the attorney told the DA's Office. I thinkthat's totally improper.MR. BOVE: Judge, first of all, the attorneys arehis agents, speaking in his presence, on his behalf in aAnd just the fact that he is aware of what theySusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1434said on this issue, they said to the District Attorney's12Office this provision is inaccurate.3So, it's45сл1067891011in addition, I will lay a foundationthat no one reported this to the Federal government.Thatthey had taken the position with the District Attorney'sOffice that the Federal Non-Prosecution Agreement wasinaccurate.He has already said that he verified that it wasaccurate. So, their decision not to inform the Federalauthorities conferred a significant benefit to Mr. Pecker.on both those grounds these are entirelySo,appropriate.It happened in front of the witness. He is1213aware of14THE COURT: And it is completely admissible.1516MR. STEINGLASS: I will say two things to that:Number one, it's unbelievably confusing.I am17not sure what sense the jury will make of that.1819202122232425Number two, I am not sure what the relevance ofthis is other than, you know, we have confirmed that theattorney was mistaken in this recollection.THE COURT: The issue, as I am hearing youdescribe, it is that I am confused. And if I am confused,I imagine that the jury is going to be confused.So, if you can get to this in some other way, Iwill allow you to%;B but the way to go about it, I don'tSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1435What I would ask permission to do,1think this helps usto get to it.2MR. BOVE:345слJudge, is finish the question that I was asking, which iswhether at the October 2019 meeting his attorneys told theprosecutors that the agreement was inaccurate.THE COURT: And leave it at that.MR. BOVE: No. Then I would confirm that, to hisknowledge, that it was never conveyed to the Federalgovernment.THE COURT: You can finish your argument. GoMR. BOVE: It is a very significant benefitconferred on him by the District Attorney's Office andand, please, I think you know, this is the firstcross-examination as a defense lawyer I have ever done.Please do not hold my shortcomings in the way Iam forming questions against President Trump. This isright at the core of what we are doing to impeach Mr.1067891011ahead.121314it's1516171819202122232425Pecker.THE COURT: Two things: One, you are doing avery good job.Two, that you may be doing a bad job in youropinion is of no consequence.Whoever the defendant is, whatever the positionthe defendant is running for and whoever represents him,Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 143610678910great job. To tell me not to hold it against your youth1you are all being well-compensated to come here and do a2345слsuggests that I shouldn't enforce the rules of evidence,and I am not going to do that.I will allow you to ask those two questions andthat's it. Beyond that, it will just get confusing.MR. BOVE: So I don't overstep, I can ask if heis aware that his attorneys argued in this meeting that theagreement was inaccurate?THE COURT: Now, are you saying that he was11there?12131415MR. BOVE: Yes. And I would ask permission, ifhe doesn't remember, to refresh him.THE COURT: Just ask him, and then follow up withthe second question.16MR. BOVE:That to his knowledge this was never17conveyed to SDNY?1819THE COURT: Yes, and leave it at that.MR. BOVE: Thank you, Judge.20(Discussion at side-bar concluded, and the21following occurred in open court.)22BY MR. BOVE:2324Thank you.Mr. Pecker, so, before the side-bar, we were talking25about the October 2019 meeting, right?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14371AYes.2345And I think we can put the Non-Prosecution Agreementback on the screen, please.And I think before the side-bar you said that thisprovision, paragraph three, was discussed during that meeting,6right?7AYes.8And your lawyers were there, right?9AYes.1011correct?Some of the same lawyers here in the courtroom today,12A13141516Yes.During that conversation about paragraph three, do yourecall that your attorneys said to the District Attorney'sOffice that part of paragraph three is, quote, wrong andDo you remember that?inaccurate?17ANo.181920Mr. Bernik, if we can show just the parties and Mr.Pecker and the Court Defendant's A108. Let's start with thefirst page just to get oriented.21Do you see that these are the notes from October 25th?22AYes.23And you testified earlier about somebody in the24meeting typing everything down, right?25AYes.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14381And if we can now look at the page ending 047.2AYes.34567And if we zoom in on the first half, please. And Iwant you to read this, and then let me know when you are doneand I have a question or two.And does that refresh your recollection that paragraphthree of the Non-Prosecution Agreement was discussed in this8meeting?9AYes.10You can see that at the top, right?11AYes.121314A15161718And the next entry is a statement by one of yourattorneys,correct?Yes.And does that refresh your recollection that theattorney said in response to a question about paragraph three,I think that may be inaccurate. I think that came up with theFeds, I have never heard Pecker say that?1920Does that refresh your recollection that that was saidduring the meeting?21ANo.And I would like to clarify it, if I can.2223AOkay.The only wording here is the word, purchasing, selling24stories.25Meaning?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14391AMeaning my--the testimony that I gave, and what I2said was,I offered at that meeting that being the eyes and3ears and hearing any stories that are there, I would offer4that women would be selling them, and I would be offering them567synonymous.8Does thatto Michael Cohen. That's what I said.So, the selling here and purchasing, basically, areSomebody has to buy them.9 straightforward.--my question is a little moreI appreciate the clarification.1011My question is, in response to a question from aprosecutor about the provision in the Non-Prosecution121314Agreement, did your attorney say, I think that may beinaccurate, I think that came up with the Feds, I have neverheard Pecker say that?15MR. STEINGLASS:Objection.16THE COURT:Sustained.17AYes.1819A202122232425ATHE COURT: The objection is sustained.I am sorry.There was a dispute in that meeting about some of thelanguage in the agreement, right?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Overruled.He can answer.Yes, it was just the one word.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/Bove1We can agree that words are important, right?Page 14402AYes, that selling and purchasing is the same.34Somebody is selling, somebody has to buy them.That's not what your lawyers said to the prosecutors,5is it?106789MR. STEINGLASS:Objection.THE COURT: Sustained.And as far as you know, after that October 2019meeting, the District Attorney's Office did not tell theFederal government that their agreement was inaccurate,1011correct?12MR. STEINGLASS:Objection.13THE COURT:Sustained.1415And you testified on Thursday that you received aletter from the Federal Election Commission in 2018?16AThat's correct.17And you said that you spoke to Michael Cohen about the18letter?19A202122I did.And you said that during that conversation MichaelCohen told you that President Trump had Jeff Sessions, quote,in his pocket, do you remember that?23AYes.24Are you positive that Michael Cohen said that?25AYes.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

12345D. Pecker-Cross/BoveQPage 1441And in thinking back in time to early 2018, you knewthat wasn't right?AThat's why I said to Michael Cohen, I was veryconcerned and worried.You were concerned because Michael Cohen had saidsomething to you that wasn't true?67AThat's correct.891011121314151617A1819Because President Trump did not have Jeff Sessions inhis pocket, correct?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Sustained.And, in fact, this was an example of one time thatcame to form your view that Michael Cohen is prone toexaggeration?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Overruled. You can answer?I am sorry. Could you say that again?Based on your experience, Michael Cohen is prone toexaggeration?20AYes.2122232425You could not trust everything he said?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Overruled.MR. STEINGLASS: Could we be heard at sidebar?THE COURT:Sure.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14421234510678(Discussion is held at side-bar, on therecord.)MR. STEINGLASS: Sorry, Judge. I am not tryingto be difficult.This is opinion testimony of a witness of thecredibility of another witness who hasn't testified yet.To attack a witness' credibilityThat is not proper.witness' credibility is being attacked for bad acts orareputation for peacefulness, truthfulness in the communityThe witness is not permitted to offerby another witness.his opinion of another witness.MR. BOVE: The witness has been able to testifyand give his opinion here today about President Trump'sstatements or admissions.The statements of Michael CohenTHE COURT: To the extent that you are asking himyou need to move on. If91011121314151617his opinion, I am not going to18192021(Discussion at side-bar concluded, and the22following occurred in open court.)23BY MR. BOVE:2425You testified yesterday that the FEC investigationactually ended in sort of an agreement with AMI, right?you want to impeach Michael Cohen, that is not the rightway to do it. All right?MR. BOVE: Yes, Judge.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

1AYes.D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 144367A8910A112And I think you referred to that as a Conciliation3 Agreement, correct?4A5Yes.And that was entered into in May of 2021, if I amremembering that right?It was 2021, May or June.And you read that Conciliation Agreement at the timeit was entered into, correct?At that time I was not part of the company anymore.You left in 2020, correct?I understand.12AThat's correct.1314You were still interested in this investigation,weren't you?15AYes.16Part of that was because you still had equity in AMI,17right?18AYes.19And you also provided consulting services to AMI?20AYes.2122232425What type of consulting services were you providing toAMI in 2021?AJust any questions from the President on the tabloids,on the celebrity magazines and the magazine issues.And for those reasons, among others, you reviewed theSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-1 Conciliation Agreement, right?2AYes.3Cross/BovePage 14444And you testified yesterday, did you not, that theConciliation Agreement involved an admission by AMI to a5 campaign violation?106AYes.7That wasn't accurate, was it?8AYes.9MR. STEINGLASS: Withdrawn.10AYes, it was.11Sir, it'syou reviewed the agreement in 2021.Have1213AI re--14you reviewed it more recently?I reviewed it in 2021, yes.Have you reviewed it more recently?15AMore recently, yes, I reviewed it.1617right?In connection with preparing for your testimony,18AYes.192021Mr. Bernik, if we can take a look at Defense markedfor identification A131, please, and turn to page two.This is a Conciliation Agreement, right?22AYes.232425And if we can look at page seven, please, Mr. Bernik.And I would like to zoom in, if we could, to theparagraph with the Roman numeral entry five, sub one and two.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

1A2D. Pecker-Cross/BoveI have page six of eight.We will work on that.3I think――is this A131?4AYes.5слPage 144560789There we go.Sir, take a look at the language that is zoomed in onthe screen.And I want to see if that refreshes yourrecollection that AMI entered into this agreement with noadmission as to the merit of the Commission'sno admissionas to the merit of the Commission's legal conclusions?That's different from an admission, right?One of the other reasons that you were following thisFEC investigation was that you were actually a party at onepoint, right?1011AYes.1213AYes.14151617AYes.1819AYes.202122AYes.232425And you and AMI had counsel, correct?And the FEC was also accusing you of a campaignfinance violation, correct?And you certainly did not admit to a campaign financeviolation in connection with anything that you described duringyour testimony, right?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1446And that Conciliation Agreement that we just talked1ANo.234about with AMI, you were not part of that, right?AThat was the company.сл51067A89Right.You didn't work at the company anymore, correct?Yes.And in connection with defending against the FECallegations, you submitted a Declaration to the FEC, correct?10A1112A131415I did.That was on May 6th of 2021, do you recall that?Yes.And you submitted that Declaration under the penaltyof perjury, right?AYes.1617And in that Declaration you described the legal advisethat you had received relating to the agreement with KarenMcDougal, correct?And the position that you and your lawyers took wasthat the agreement was lawful, right?1819AYes.202122AYes.232425And there were certainly no suggestions in your swornDeclaration that you withheld anything from your attorneys inconnection with the negotiation of the August 2016 agreement?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

123D. Pecker-Cross/BoveMR. STEINGLASS:THE COURT:Objection.Sustained.Your position with the FEC was that you werecompletely truthful with your lawyers, right?45AYeah. Yes.6Page 14479101178And the attorneys argued to the FEC that that was partof the reason that you had not committed a campaign financeviolation, correct?A Can you repeat that again, please?You were represented by counsel in the FECinvestigation, right?12AYes.13And so was AMI, right?14AYes.15And it was the same lawyers, correct?16AYes.17And they were making arguments on your behalf, right?18AYes.19And also on behalf of AMI, correct?20AThat's correct.2122And they were arguing to the FEC that you had notcommitted a campaign finance violation, correct?23AYes.24And you believed in 2021 that that was true, correct?25AYeah.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1448And that's why you authorized your lawyers to makethose arguments to the Federal Regulatory Agency, right?123AYes.456AYes.7QAnd you submitted a sworn Declaration under penalty ofperjury describing the facts, correct?89And in that Declaration you asserted to the FEC, underpenalty of perjury, that you sought legal advise relating tothe August 2016 agreement with Karen McDougal, correct?10111213AYes.And your lawyers relied on that sworn Declaration toargue to the FEC that there was no violation, right?AYes.And you were familiar with the argument that they weremaking, correct?This was important to you, right?141516AYes.1718AYes.1920A2122Similar to the situation with the FBI?Correct.And we have talked a lot about that the October 2019meeting with the District Attorney's Office, right?23AYes.2425And after that meeting, your hope was that at leastthe criminal proceedings were over, correct?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14491AYes,I thought it was over.23And you wanted this civil regulatory investigation toget resolved also, right?4AYes.56078You were focused on it, correct?And you believed that what your lawyers were saying tothe FEC was true, correct?AYes.9And you are aware that one of the things that yourlawyers argued to the FEC was that the Washington Post hadsuppressed information relating to Paula Jones in connectionwith the 1996 election, correct?MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT: Sustained.You were answering questions yesterday about someboxes relating to President Trump. Do you remember those101112131415161718AYes.19202122Aquestions, sir?2324And I think what you said was that there was a requestfrom Michael Cohen to get access to these boxes so that hecould look at what was inside of them, correct?That's correct.There was some suggestion by Michael Cohen that he wasconcerned about what would happen if you left AMI, right?25AYes.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 1450123And he wasn'tI am just trying to make sure what Ithought you were saying, what your understanding was, okay?He was not suggesting to you that this was a long-term4 media problem, right? He was just concerned about your TimeMagazine job applications?56AIf you can clarify that. What you are asking?7QYou were exploring some opportunities in 2016 and82017, right?910AYes.And there was at least a possibility that you could11take on a role at Time Magazine, correct?12AIn 2016, I was looking--we were looking to acquire131415all of Time. I wasn't looking to just take a job and leave tobecome President of Time. I was acquiring it. It was a matterof acquiring the company.16And there would be a change of roles for you, correct?17AYes.181920And in connection with these conversations withMichael Cohen, you did actually have somebody review theseboxes that we have been talking about, right?21AYes.22And based on your review you saw--you knew that23 everything in there was worthless, right?24AThat's correct.25You are not suggesting that there is a trove ofSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Cross/BovePage 14511 sensitive information about President Trump at the NationalEnquirer, correct?23AYes.4There was nothing--there was nothing, it was5worthless, correct?106AThere was nothing in those boxes?78A910And you believe they were worthless?They were worthless.You have an agreement with the District Attorney'sOffice, right?11AYes.1213That's an agreement that you entered into in Octoberof 2019, correct?14AYes.151617And what's your understanding of your obligationsunder that agreement?A To be truthful on everything that I testify to on thequestions that are given to me by any agency.And at this trial, all sides asked you a lot ofquestions, right?18192021AYes.2223AYes.Some harder than others?24And you understand that, ultimately, they will decide25 whether or not they think you were truthful, right?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 1452I have been truthful to the best of my recollection.And, ultimately, they will decide whether you compliedwith the agreement, right?1A2345слAYes.1067891011MR. BOVE: Nothing further, Judge.THE COURT: Thank you.People, any redirect?MR. STEINGLASS:REDIRECT EXAMINATIONBY MR. STEINGLASS:Yes, Judge.Good afternoon, Mr. Pecker.12AGood afternoon.13141516I want to show you People's 161 in evidence.We can show it to everybody.It's in evidence.Do you remember being asked about this by Mr. Bove oncross-examination?17AYes.1819This is an invoice that you testified was prepared byDaniel Rotstein?20AYes, that's correct.212223And he asked you whether you were mistaken when youtestified yesterday that this document was made and kept byAMI, correct?24AYes.25When AMI gets an invoice, even from a third-party, doSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14531they keep it as part of their business records?2AYes, they do.3And is it kept by AMI to justify expenditures?4AYes.567So were you mistaken about anything when you testifiedearlier in this trial that this document was made and kept ormade or kept by AMI?8AI--9My question was a bad one. Do you want me to rephrase10it?11A1213 business?Please.Was this document kept by AMI in the regular course of14A1516Yes, it was.Now, you testified that prior to signing the contractwith Ms. McDougal, that the general counsel of AMI consultedelection, outside of election counsel, is that right?1718AYes.19You didn't personally speak to the outside counsel,2021Adid you?No, I did not.22And did--you I believe you told us, but who was2324AAMI's general counsel at the time?Cameron Stracher.25Now, prior to--withdrawn.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 1454Is Cameron Stracher the one that reached out tooutside election counsel?123AYes, he did.4567Prior to his doing that, did you ever personally tellCameron Stracher about the agreement you made with Donald Trumpin August of 2015 when you agreed to help Mr. Trump's campaign?ANo, I never did.89What was your understanding of what outside counselwas asked to review?10AThe Karen McDougal agreement.11The contract?12AThe contract.131415Did that contract contain provisions that we discussedat length where Ms. McDougal would appear on magazine coversand author articles as a ghost writer?16AYes.17181920And you testified on direct examination that the truepurpose of the contract with Ms. McDougal was to acquire herlife rights to her story about her romantic and sexualrelationship with Mr. Trump, is that right?21AThat's correct.222324And that you had included the provisions about thearticles, the covers, the ghost-written articles to give AMIsome plausible deniability?25AYes, that's correct.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14551Q2Can we put up People's Exhibit 182, please, paragraphfive, and this can go out to everybody.Thank you.34It is a little hard for me to read it from back here.This is part of the Statement of Admitted Facts thatAMI entered into with the Southern District of New York that is56appended to the Non-Prosecution Agreement, is that right?7AThat's correct.891011And did you say, or did AMI say in this document thatAMI's principal purpose in entering into the agreement was tosuppress the model's story so as to prevent it from influencingthe election?12AThat is correct.1314Is that true, Mr. Pecker? Was that your purpose inlocking up the Karen McDougal story, to influence the election?1819A2015AYes.1617The provisions about her being on the cover, coversand writing articles that she wasn't even writing, why was thatincluded in the contract?It was included in the contract, basically, as adisguise of what the actual purpose of it was.21What was the actual purpose of it?222324A The actual purpose was to acquire lifetime rights to astory so it doesn't--so it's not published.It wouldn't bepublished by American Media. It would not be published by any25other media source.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/Steinglass1Page 1456QNow, did you ever tell Cameron Stracher, before he234à consulted outside counsel, that the true purpose of thecontract that he was asking outside counsel to review was toinfluence the election?5ANo.678Now, prior to Mr. Stracher's discussion with outsidecounsel, did you ever inform Mr. Stracher that you intended totransfer Karen McDougal's life rights to Michael Cohen?9ANo.101112Did you ever tell him that Michael Cohen promised toreimburse you for most or all of the money that you had paid toKaren McDougal?1314ANo, I never did.Was there a Retainer Agreement signed by AMI and the15outside counsel?16AIn17Do I need to clarify that a little bit?18AYes, please.19You testified that prior to the signing of the20contract with Karen McDougal, that it was your understanding2122that AMI's general counsel reached out to election counsel tohave them review, the outside counsel, to have them review the23Karen McDougal contract?24AThat's correct.25Was there a retainer agreement completed in connectionSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14571with retaining such outside counsel?2AYes.34Privately, can we please show the witness Batesstamped AM/NYDA 74.23 and 4.Do you see that?5AYes, I do.60What day was the retainer agreement signed between AMI7 and outside counsel?89AAugust 5, 2016.What is the name of the attorney, the outsideattorney, who worked on this matter?1011AChris Murray.1213 reviewing the contract between AMI and Karen McDougal?Did Mr. Murray bill AMI for the work that he did14AYes, he did.1516As you sit here, I think I asked you this on Tuesday,do you know how much time was billed for his reviewing of thecontract?1718A192021Less than an hour.Okay. Let me show you privately, and just for theattorneys, Judge, AM/NYDA 74.25 through 34.Do you recognize this document?22AYes.2324Is this a series of bills from Mr. Murray to AMI forwork done in 2016?25AYes, it was.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/Steinglass1Page 1458QAnd I am just going to scroll through all the pages in23this exhibit and ask you to keep your eyes out to see if thereare any bills for services rendered in the months June, July,4August?5AYes, there were.1067So I want to direct your attention to page eight. Doyou see a bill for services rendered on August 3rd of 2016?8AYes.9And does that refresh your recollection whichwell,101112does that refresh your recollection as to how many hours AMIwas billed in connection with outside counsel's review of theKaren McDougal contract?13AIt was a half an hour.1415161718Half an hour.I am showing you what's in evidence as People'sExhibit 156, and this can be shown to everyone.There is the contract that AMI signed with KarenMcDougal, is that right?19AThat's correct.2021And you were asked extensively about this oncross-examination, is that right?22AYes.2324contract?Just to remind us, what is the effective date of this25AAugust 5th.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14591Does this contract mention anything about Mr. Trumpreimbursing you, this contract that was reviewed by outside23counsel?4ANo.56A7Does it mention Michael Cohen's name at all?No, it does not.Does the contract mention anything about the plan toreassign Karen McDougal's life rights to either Mr. Trump orMr. Cohen?No, it does not.8910A11121314ANo, it does not.Does the contract mention anything about youragreement to help Mr. Trump's campaign that you reached at theAugust 2015 meeting at Trump Tower?15Does it mention anything about your agreement to16 undertake certain actions at the request of the campaign?17ANo, it does not.18Do the contract even mention the word, campaign?19ANo.202122Very recently Mr. Bove asked you a series of questionsabout the FEC investigation into the conduct by AMI.remember those questions?Do you23AYes.2425And your original position in that case when the heasked you a lot of questions I should say, about your originalSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 1460position after the FEC filed a complaint, is that right?12AYes.345A60And your initial response was to deny culpability, isthat correct?That's correct.Subsequently, you entered into a ConciliationAgreement you testified about, correct?And you were shown a page of that ConciliationAgreement by Mr. Bove as, I believe it was,Defendant's AB131?MR. BOVE: Can I have one minute to consult withMr. Steinglass, please?(Counsel confer.)Thank you.On direct examination you testified about aConciliation Agreement that AMI entered into, correct?78AYes.91011121314151617AYes.18192021A2223A2425Can we show privately, please, that agreement,specifically page seven?This is the same page that Mr. Bove showed youYes.--on cross-examination, right?That's correct.And he asked you whether your understanding was thatAMI had admitted to a campaign finance violation, correct?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

1AD. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 1461Correct.2And that's what the FEC was investigating, right,whether or not AMI had engaged in a campaign finance violation?34AYes, they were.567Notwithstanding the fact that, initially, you and yourlawyer denied having done so, you did enter into thisConciliation Agreement, is that right?8AYes.9101112And this page that Mr. Bove showed you, contains thefollowing language, solely for the purpose of settling thismatter and avoiding litigation, with no admission as to themerit of the Commission's legal conclusions, Respondent agreesnot to contest that AMI's payment to Karen McDougal to purchasea limited life story right, combined with its decision not topublish the story in consultation with an agent of Donald J.Trump, and for the purpose of influencing the election,constituted a prohibitive corporate in-kind contribution inviolation of 52 USC Section 30118 (a).1314151617181920language?21A22Does the page that Mr. Bove showed you contain that232425Yes.Was it your understanding when AMI entered into thisagreement that AMI was acknowledging that the conduct that ithad committed in connection with the Karen McDougal paymentviolated Federal Election Law?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 1462MR. BOVE: Judge, I object and ask to be heard at12side-bar.3THE COURT:45сл106789101112131415161718192021222324re-cross,Overruled.You want to approach?MR. BOVE: Yes, please.(Discussion is held at side-bar, on therecord.)MR. BOVE: Judge, I can clean some of this up onbut Mr. Pecker did not sign this agreement.Andit's been repeatedly embedded that this is his agreement.This is AMI's agreement entered into at a timeafter he left AMI.And the cover page is a cover letter from the FECwith the agreement, and says that the matter beinginvestigated, as to when Mr. Pecker was dismissedMR. STEINGLASS: I think I clarified this was anagreement that AMI entered into.In any event, Mr. Bove, is permitted to clarifyanything he wants to.THE COURT: I think Mr. Steinglass has a right togo back and clear it up. I think you left the jury with acertain impression.(Discussion at side-bar concluded, and thefollowing occurred in open court.)25Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14631BY MR. STEINGLASS:23I apologize, Mr. Pecker. I don't remember thequestion, so I am going to ask the court reporter to read it4back.5106(The question, as requested, was read by thecourt reporter.)7AYes.8You testified on direct examination that after you9entered into the agreement with Karen McDougal,you formulated101112A13a plan to sell the life rights to Mr. Cohen, sell her liferights to Mr. Cohen for a sum of money, correct?That's correct.What was the sum of money that you were selling herlife rights for?$125,000.1415A16171819AYes, that's correct.20So, prior to--withdrawn.And, in fact, I believe you testified that you onlyentered into the agreement with Karen McDougal in the firstplace because Mr. Cohen had promised to reimburse you?21You testified on direct, I can show it to you if youlike, there was an agreement, a transfer agreement where you2223were--2425that document?had signed and Michael Cohen had signed, and this wasthe process of transferring the life rights. Do you rememberSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 1464And you went so far as to sign the document?1AYes, I do.23AI did.4567AI did.After that, but before money actually exchanged hands,did you communicate with your general counsel, CameronStracher, again?89And I do not want to ask you about any privilegedquestions about what you discussed with Cameron Stracher, butbased on that conversation with Cameron Stracher, what becameof your plan to transfer Karen McDougal's life rights to Donaldafter that conversation, I called upMichael Cohen and told him that the deal was off and to rip up101112Trump?13AI, after141516171819the agreement.Can we please show the witness 154, People's 154.And, actually, you can show it to everyone. It's in evidence,I am sorry.Do you remember Mr. Bove asking you a series of20 questions about this document on cross-examination?21AYes.2223 document?And he asked you whether this was a standard AMI24AYes.25And you said that it was, correct?Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14651AThat's correct.23It's a fairly standard Source Agreement intended tokind of lock up a source?4AThat's correct.5That's something AMI does a lot?All the time.This agreement was amended by People's 155, is thatCan you show People's 155?106A78right?9AYes.1011And one of the amendments that thisthat People's155 changed in People's 154 was by extending the exclusivityperiod from 90 days to in perpetuity?1213AThat is correct.1415A16Whose idea was it to do that?That was my conversation with Michael Cohen.Is it standard operating procedure for AMI to be17consulting with the presidential-with a presidential18 candidate's fixer about amendments to a Source Agreement?19ANo.20212223Whowithdrawn.Another amendment that was made to the original SourceAgreement with Dino Sajudin was to add a one-million-dollarliquidated damages clause?24AThat's correct.25Is a one-million-dollar liquidated damages clause on aSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 146630,000-dollar Source Agreement standard operating procedure?Why did you amend the agreement to add aone-million-dollar liquidated damages clause?12ANo.345A678910That was at Michael Cohen's request.Is it standard operating procedure to have apresidential candidate's campaign person weighing in on whatterms of a contract ought to be amended?ANo.1112Speaking of Michael Cohen, you testified on bothdirect examination and again on cross-examination that MichaelCohen told you that he did not work for the campaign, is that13 correct?14AYes.15He was paid by the Trump Organization, not by the16 campaign, is that correct?17AYes.1819Now, despite the fact that he did not officially workfor the campaign, were you aware of the activities that heengaged in on behalf of the campaign?2021AYes, I was.22Who invited you to Mr. Trump's announcement that he2324Michael Cohen.25was running for President in the first place?ADid you ever see Michael Cohen go on television toSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/Steinglass1talk about Mr. Trump's campaign talking points?2AYes. I have.3QI am sorry?4AYes, I did.5Page 1467Did you ever know Michael Cohen to work his presscontacts on behalf of the campaign?1067AYes.86Did you ever receive an invite to a campaignfundraiser that Michael Cohen participated in on behalf ofMr. Trump?1011AYes, I did.12Q1314After the Access Hollywood tape was released, whocontacted you to ask you to remove the Playboy mansion storyfrom the Radar Online archives?15AMichael Cohen.16171819And during the meeting in which during the TrumpTower meeting between yourself, Michael Cohen and Mr. Trump,when you formulated the agreement to help the campaign, wasMichael Cohen part of that conversation?--20AYes, he was.2122Mr. Bove asked you whether NDAs or Non-DisclosureAgreements were standard operating procedure for AMI.23 remember being asked that?Do you24AYes.2525And you testified on cross-examination that duringSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/Steinglass1Page 1468your tenure at AMI there were hundreds of thousands of NDAs,2right?3AYes.456you,On how many of those other NDAs had the CEO, meaningthe CEO of AMI coordinated with a presidential candidatefor the benefit of the campaign?7AIt's the only one.89Were there any other instances where a candidate'sfixer insisted on amendments to these NDAs?10ANo.11You testified on cross-examination that sometimes yousuppressed stories to help a friend?1213AYes.1415And sometimes you suppressed stories to gain leverageagainst the target of a story?16AThat's correct.17I think you talked about Tiger Woods, is that right?18AYes.1920And you wanted him to appear on some magazine coversor do something with AMI?21AYes.2223And so, you acquired a story and depicted him in a badlight and used it to leverage him into giving you what you24wanted?25AYes.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 1469Q In this case, did you suppress the stories to help a123AYes.presidential candidate?4567And you testified on cross-examination that ArnoldSchwarzenegger announced his candidacy for governor, and afterhe announced his candidacy for governor, 30 or 40 women cameforward with allegations of sexual harassment, is that right?8AYes.910And that you told Mr. Bove that you paid hundreds ofthousands of dollars to kill those stories?11AThat's correct.12131415161718I don't want to make you do the math on the spot here,but what was the approximate average of those payments?AThe largest one was $20,000. Then the other oneswould be anywhere from 500 to $2,000.Did you spend anything like the $150,000 to suppressany story in connection with the Arnold Schwarzeneggercampaign?19ANo.202122I believe you also testified that ArnoldSchwarzenegger was the frontman for some of your fitness linemagazines, is that right?23AThat's correct.2425AMI.Why did you spend money--and when I say you, I meanWhy did AMI spend money to silence Mr. Schwarzenegger'sSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14701accusers?234A Mr. Schwarzenegger was critical to the body-buildingindustry, as well as the supplement industry, as well a the twoleading publications, Us, Muscle Fitness and Flex that we just5acquired in the Weider acquisition.67So, do I understand that to mean that you were, atleast in part, motivated by your desire to protect your own8brand value?9AIt was mutually beneficial.1011A1213Your arrangement with Mr. Schwarzenegger?Yes.When you say, mutually beneficial, it also benefitedMr. Schwarzenegger?14AYes, it did.15To the extent it benefited Mr. Schwarzenegger's1617campaign, that sparked an investigation into potential campaignfinance violations by AMI, is that correct?18AYes.192021correct?And asa result of that, I believe you testified whenMr. Bove asked you questions, you made some new rules toaddress these concerns,22AYes.23NOW,when you--when you--withdrawn.24Prior to your arrangements with Mr. Trump, and I am25 speaking of the arrangement that was formed in the August 2015Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14711meeting at Trump Tower. Prior to that, did you ever preview2with a candidate positive stories about that candidate or3negative stories about that candidate's opponents?4ANo.567Prior to that August of 2015 meeting, did you evergive a candidate the opportunity to accept, reject or makechanges to your stories before they ran?8ANo.9101112Prior to that arrangement with Mr. Trump from Augustof 2015, did you ever run attack ads against any candidate'sadversaries that corresponded to those adversaries' pollingnumbers?13ANo.141516Mr. Bove elicited from you that a lot of the articles,the negative attack articles against Marco Rubio and Ted Cruzwere recycled, I believe, was the term that he used?17AYes.181920Notwithstanding the fact that they were recycled atthe time that AMI reprinted them, was AMI doing that becausethose candidates were surging in the polls against Mr. Trump?21AYes.2223campaign?And was that done in coordination with Mr. Trump's24AYes.25You testified on cross-examination that even beforeSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14721your arrangement in August of 2015, that you were friends with2Mr. Trump?3AYes.45And because you were friends, you didn't run negativestories about him even before this arrangement, is that6correct?7AThat's correct.8And I believe you told Mr. Bove that you did that for9 several of your friends?10AYes.1112Prior to the August of 2015 meeting in Trump Tower,did AMI ever agree to publish stories attacking Mr. Trump'spolitical opponents?1314ANo.1516Prior to the August 2015 meeting in Trump Tower, didAMI ever agree to be the eyes and ears of Mr. Trump's campaign?Prior to that meeting, did you ever agree to use yournetwork of sources to actively seek out potentially damagingstories, to report them to Mr. Trump so that he could preventtheir publication?17ANo.1819202122ANo.23You were asked a lot about this by Mr. Bove on24 cross-examination.25Let's be very clear here.At that meeting, what is your understanding of whatSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14731you agreed to with respect towithdrawn.2345A67Let me come at this a different way.Did you ever, specifically, use the term, catch andkill, in that meeting?No, I did not.What was your understanding about the part of theagreement that involved money?8AIt was my understanding that I would use the company's9 sources, geared toward any information that would be coming out10on Mr. Trump or the campaign relating to, specifically, women11who would be selling their stories, similar to what I1213So I notified--14experienced with Schwarzenegger 13 years ago.it is my understanding I would, forthose stories that come up, I would speak to Michael Cohen and15tell him that these are the stories that are going to be for16sale; that if we don't buy them, somebody else will; and that1718that they don't ever get published.Michael Cohen would handle, buy them or try to make sure to getThat was my19202122understanding from that meeting.You testified on both direct and cross-examinationthat certain parts of your arrangement with Mr. Trump'scampaign were mutually beneficial, is that right?23AYes.2425For example, I believe you told us on directexamination, and told Mr. Bove again on cross-examination, thatSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 1474stories praising Mr. Trump sold magazines, is that right?12AYes.3And how would you describe the overlap between yourreadership and Mr. Trump's political base?45A6years7891011--there wasBasically, the research that the company did over thebased on research that the company did over the years,no question that the celebrity audience, the tabloidaudience or the other celebrity magazines, Star, Weekly, allloved reading positive stories about Donald Trump.And when he announced his presidency or going from TheApprentice to running for President of the United States, heour sales increased, newsstand sales increased, as well as anycomments that were made by Mr. Trump about negative commentswhen we published them, the121314about his opponents were not15sales also increased.16SOit was athat's clear enough.1718So, if I understand you correctly, running storiesthat praised Mr. Trump appealed to your readership?19AYes, they did.2021And so, that aspect of the agreement that you reachedat Trump Tower was mutually beneficial, is that correct?22A232425Yes, yes.Now, you testified a moment ago that the primarypurpose for entering into the Non-Disclosure Agreement withKaren McDougal was to acquire her life rights to help theSusan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14751campaign, is that right?2AYes.3456And I believe you told us, and it was in the documentthat we showed you, you never had any intention of publishingher story?A No, we weren't going to publish her story.7Mr. Bove asked you, wouldn't that story have sold8magazines?9101112Well, let me ask you the question.Had you published a story about a Playboy model havinga year-long sexual affair, while he was married, with apresidential candidate, would that have sold magazines do you13think?14AYes.15That would be like National Enquirer gold?16AYes.1718But at the time that you entered into that agreement,you had zero intention of publishing that story?19AThat's correct.2021And despite the fact that publishing that story wouldhave helped your bottom line, you killed the story because ithelped the candidate, Donald Trump?2223AYes.2425THE COURT: Is this a good time to break?MR. STEINGLASS: Sure.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 147610678910111213141512lunch break.345слI remind you of all the admonitions, including donot discuss this case either amongst yourselves or withanyone else.Please continue to keep an open mind.Do not form or express an opinion about thedefendant's guilt or innocence until all the evidence is inand I have given you my final instructions on the law.Enjoy your lunch.COURT OFFICER: All rise.(Jurors are excused.)THE COURT: You can step down.(Witness is excused.)THE COURT: Please be seated.THE COURT: Jurors, we will stop now for our16So, I am not going to rush you.Give me a sense17of how much longer you are going to be.18MR. STEINGLASS: I have Post Its, on Post Its1920here. I am going to consolidate over lunch. I think,maybe, a half hour or less.21THE COURT: At this point, do you expect to have222324any re-cross?MR. BOVE: Yes, Judge.THE COURT: All right. Enjoy your lunch. See25you at 2:15.Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 1477MR. BLANCHE: Your Honor, we ask that you woulddirect the People to tell us who theirnext witness is.12ask the People345слMS. HOFFINGER: I informed Ms. Necheles who thenext witness is.MR. BLANCHE: We will converse at lunch.(A luncheon recess was taken.)(The trial continued on the following page.)10678910111213141516171819202122232425Susan Pearce-Bates, RPR, CCR, RSAPrincipal Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 147810678912A-F-T-E-R-N-O-O-NTHE CLERK:S-E-S-S-I-O-NContinued caseon trial, Donald J.3Trump.All parties are present.45слTHE COURT: Good afternoon.Is there anything we need to cover before we bringout Mr. Pecker?MR. STEINGLASS: I don't believe so.THE COURT: Let's get the witness.(Witness entering courtroom.)1011THE COURT: I remind you that you are still under12oath.13(Jury entering.)14151617THE COURT: Please be seated.THE CLERK: Continuing case on trial, Peopleversus Donald J. Trump. All parties and all jurors are18present.19202122THE COURT: Good afternoon.Mr. Steinglass.MR. STEINGLASS: Thank you, Judge.CONTINUED REDIRECT EXAMINATION23BY MR. STEINGLASS:24Q.Good afternoon, Mr. Pecker.25A.Good afternoon.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14791Q.I am not going to try to keep you here too much2longer.3You testified on cross-examination that the National4 Enquirer's circulation was around 350,000 in 2016; is that5right?6A.That's correct.789101112Q. Does that count all the people who see the headlineswhile on line at the supermarket or at Walmart or at otherplaces where it's sold?A. That is only the paid circulation for the newsstand andthe subscribers.Q. You testified earlier that "catch and kill" was not aphrase that you would use to describe your deal with Mr. Trumpduring that meeting; is that right?131415A.That's correct.16Q. And Mr. Bove--I apologize for the pronunciation1718earlier Mr. Bove got you to say on cross-examination that youfirst heard that name from the Federal Prosecutors; is that19right?20A.Yes.2122232425(Displayed.)Q. I want to show you People's 180 again. We can showeverybody, it's in evidence.This is the Wall Street Journal that both myself andMr. Bove showed you during questioning several times; is thatTheresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14801right?2A.Yes,it is.3Q.Can you remind us when this article came out?4A.This came out on November 4, 2016.5Q.And you testified that you were certainly aware of thisarticle when it was released; is that right?1067A.Yes.8Q. Basically it had everything to do with AMI and its dealwith Karen McDougal on behalf of then-candidate Trump?Correct.And as CEO, you were certainly familiar with this910A.11Q.12article?13A.Yes.14Q.15A.16Q.1718You certainly read it?I did.I want to turn to Page 2 for a minute and direct yourattention to a phrase on Page 2.A.Can you read that line out loud, please?"Squashing stories, that was known in the tabloid worldas catch and kill."Q. So is it more likely, Mr. Pecker, that you did notfirst hear this term because prosecutors somehow fed it to1920212223you?24A. I first heard it from the pressread to the press.25Q.As Mr. Bove noted during cross-examination, you did notTheresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/Steinglass1Page 1481use the phrase "catch and kill" during your direct testimony in2this case, did you?3A.No, I never did.456Q. In response to Mr. Bove's question this morning, youtestified that you wanted nothing to do this Stormy Danielsdeal; is that right?7A.Yes. Yes.8910Q. What did you tell Dylan Howard about your willingnessto pay for another story involving Mr. Trump?A.I said to Michael Cohen: After paying for the doormanstory and the Karen McDougal story, I wasn't going to buyanything further and I wasn't a bank.Q. And what did you tell Dylan Howard about it when hefirst reached out to you? I think you said you were havingdinner with your wife on Saturday night?A.Q.Yes.111213141516171819202122Q. And I want to--withdrawn.23Now, you told us a moment ago that you also spoke toWhen he first reached out to you about the story, whatdid you tell him? What did you tell Dylan Howard?A. I told Dylan Howard that there is no possible way Iwould buy the story for $120,000, and I didn't want to haveanything to do with a p*rn star.24 Michael Cohen about it?25A.Yes.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/Steinglass123456Page 1482Q. Why did you reach out to Michael Cohen when you learnedthat Stormy Daniels had a story involving sexual infidelity withMr. Trump?A. Based on our mutual agreement back in August 2015, anystories concerning Mr. Trump that would be very embarrassing, Iwould want to communicate that with Michael Cohen right away.7If he heard it from somebody else, he would go8ballistic.910A.111213Who is "he?"If Michael Cohen heard the story, that he heard it fromsomeone else. I was referring to Michael Cohen.And so when you--withdrawn.1415161718When you reached out to Michael Cohen, it was, as youjust said, to notify him, as you had promised to do in thatAugust 2015 meeting?A.Q.That's correct.When you told Mr. Bove that you wanted nothing to dowith it, you weren't going to print it; is that correct?19A.Print it or buy it or be associated with it.20Q.You weren't going to print it, you weren't going to pay21for it, you weren't going to be associated?22A.Correct.2324Q. You were still going to fulfill your obligation to tellMichael Cohen about it so that the campaign would squash it?25A.Yes.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 1483I believe you testified on direct examination thatsometime later Dylan Howard came back to you because MichaelCohen hadn't delivered on his promise to pay Stormy Daniels off;1Q.2345слis that right?A.That's correct.That's correct.Q.And he asked you to reach out to Michael Cohen?610789101112131415A. Yes, he did.Q. I believe you testified on direct examination thatyou, Michael Cohen and Dylan Howard had a three-way call onOctober 25, 2016, regarding Stormy Daniels; is that right?A.That's correct.Q. Can you remind the jury, please, what you discussed onthat call?A. We called Michael Cohen on the Signal. "We" beingDylan Howard and myself. And Dylan made a presentation to16 Michael Cohen. He was very aggressive over the phone and17181920told Michael: "These two sources are very important to me.If you don't pay them, you're ruining my reputation.promised to wire the money two times and you never did."Then Michael Cohen said to me I should buy it.You212223I said to Michael Cohen: "Absolutely not. I am notpaying for the story. I told you a number of times, I don'twant to be involved with it. My suggestion to you is, you24should buy the story--" you being Michael Cohen"should buy25the story, because if you don't, and as Dylan just said to usTheresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/Steinglass1Page 1484over the phone, it's going to be sold to another media outlet.2The Boss is going to be very, very angry with you."34Q. So when you are referring to "The Boss," tellingMichael Cohen that The Boss would be very angry with him if he5let the story go, who did you mean when you referred to "The6Boss?"7A.Donald Trump.Q.89Mr. Bove asked you several times about two interviewsthat you gave to the FBI on July 26th and one on August 2, 2016;10do you remember him asking you repeatedly about those, the11interviews?12A.Yes, I did.131415Q. Is it fair to say some topics were discussed on one dayand some topics were discussed on the other day and some topicswere discussed on both days?16A.That's correct.17Q. You did not take notes during those interviews18personally, did you?19A. No, I did not.20Q.The notes Mr. Bove shown you were taken by FBI agents?21A.That's correct.2223--24Q. At one point Mr. Bove showed you a single line in theJuly 26, 20162018 interview, in which an FBI agent wrotein reference to the January 6, 2017 meeting at Trump Tower,25"that Mr. Trump did not express any gratitude towards you?"Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14851A.Yes.2Q.Is that correct?3A.Yes.4Q.510Do you remember him showing you that?A. Yes, I do.6Q.7A.89You said, "I didn't say that, he got it wrong?"That's correct.Q. You told Mr. Bove that you have always consistentlysaid that Mr. Trump thanked you at that meeting; is thatcorrect?1011A.Yes.12Q.Do you know how many pages long those interview notes13are?14A.Not off the top of my head.I am sorry.15Q.I guess that is not a fair question.I am sorry.16171819Let me show you the FBI notes from the August 2nd of2018 interview that Mr. Bove also showed you.Okay.Specifically, I want to show you Page 6.20A.Okay.21Q.22So this was, literally, a week after the interview inwhich your testimony is that the FBI erroneously recorded the23fact that you said that Mr. Trump did not thank you?24A.Yes.25Q.And one week later, did you not tell the FBI,"InTheresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14861January 2017, Pecker visited Trump in Trump's office at Trump2⚫ Tower. At that time Trump told Pecker, in sum and substance,3that he, Trump, wanted to thank him, Pecker, for handling the4Karen and doorman stories because it would have been very5damaging to him."6Correct?7A.That's correct.8Q.So did you,in fact, tell the FBI that the defendant910thanked you for both the Karen McDougal story and the DinoSajudin story?11A.Yes, I did.12Q.Was that the truth then?13A.Yes.14Q.Is it the truth now?15A.Yes.1617Q. Do you believe that you have ever been inconsistentabout this point?18A.No.19Q.20I want to show you testimony from the Grand Jury, theFederal Grand Jury in this case that Mr. Bove also referred to.Do you remember him asking you about that?2122A.Yes.23Q.There was testimony given on August 13, 2018; do you24remember giving that testimony on that date?25A.Yes.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

1Q.2it?D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 1487Do you remember Mr. Bove asking you questions about34A.Q.Yes.And this was less than two weeks after the second day5 of that two-day FBI interview; is that right?610A.Yes.7Q.8Were you asked these questions and did you give theseanswers in that Grand Jury:9Page 26, line 22:10111213141516"QUESTION: Now, I would like to draw your attention toapproximately January 6, 2017. Did you meet with nowPresident-Elect Trump at his request at Trump Tower?"ANSWER: Yes, I did."QUESTION: Did you discuss Ms. McDougal?"ANSWER:Yes, I did."QUESTION: Please tell the Grand Jury about that17conversation.18"ANSWER: Trump said to me: How is Karen doing?19Referring to Karen McDougal.2021articles for the fitness magazines.22good girl. Then he said that he23was2425So I said: Everything is quiet. Karen is writing herTrump said that Karen was ait says as I guess it'swas very appreciative of the way I handled the McDougalstory. He thanked me. He also thanked me for handling thedoorman story. He said he was very grateful and both theseTheresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14881stories could have been very, very damaging?"2Were you asked those questions and did you give those3answers?4A.Yes.5Q.That was in 2018 in the Federal Grand Jury?106A.In the Federal Grand Jury.7Q.891011121314The questioning goes on excuse me one second.Skipping to line 19.Were you asked the following questions and did you givethe following answers:"QUESTION: And I believe you testified thatFormer President Trump said that the McDougal story and thedoorman story could have been damaging; is that correct?"ANSWER: That's correct."QUESTION: What did you understand Mr. Trump to meanby damaging?"ANSWER: I believe he was referring to that it wouldbe very damaging to his campaign and his election."were you asked those1516171819Did you give those answers20questions and did you give those answers?21A.Yes.22Q.Was that the truth then?23A.Yes.24Q.Is that truth now?25A.Yes, it is.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14891Q.Is there any confusion on your part about that?2A.None.3Q. Mr. Bove asked you about your agreement with the45Federal Prosecutors, also known as the Southern District of NewYork; do you remember questions about that?6A.Yes.78Q. And you have obligations, I believe he asked you about,under that agreement; is that right?9A.Yes.10Q.Excuse me. I am referring to your Non-Prosecution11Agreement.12A.Yes.1314Q. Among other things, you have to provide truthfulinformation; is that correct?15A.Yes.161718Q. You have to cooperate fully with the Southern Districtof New York, the Federal Prosecutors, and any other lawenforcement agencies designated by that office?19A.That's correct.20Q.Did anyone from the when you were dealing with the21Feds?22A.Yes.2324Q. Did anyone from the Southern District of New York orthe FBI, did either of them ever suggest to you that they wanted25you to say anything other than the truth?Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker-Redirect/SteinglassPage 14901A.23Absolutely not.Q. Now, you testified on cross-examination that you spokeseveral times with members of the New York County District4Attorney's office over the last few months; is that right?5A.That's correct.106Q.7And, in fact, Mr. Bove asked you in particular ifyou met with some of the Assistant District Attorneys sitting8here?9A.Yes.10Q.11A.12Q.13Including myself?That's correct.Mr. Bove asked you whether we decide whether youfulfilled your obligation to testify truthfully; is that right?14A.Yes.15Q.1617Mr. Pecker, did anyone from the New York CountyDistrict Attorney's office ever suggest to you that they wantedyou to do anything other than tell the truth?18A.Absolutely not.19Q.2021222324A.What did we tell you?I was told to be truthful on any questions that wereasked of me, only be truthful.MR. STEINGLASS: Thank you very much, Mr. Pecker.THE COURT: Mr. Bove.MR. BOVE: Thank you, Judge.25RECROSS EXAMINATIONTheresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. PeckerRecross/BovePage 1491Q. Mr. Pecker, before lunch you were asked some questions1BY MR. BOVE:2345by Mr. Steinglass about "attack ads;" do you recall thosequestions?A. Yes, I do.106Q.The National Enquirer didn't run any attack ads78A.9Q.relating to President Trump's opponents, correct?Can you define for me that, what the headlines were?There were headlines, but not attack ads?10A.That's correct.11Q.We talked about some of those headlines this morning,12right?13A.We did.14Q.Do you remember that before lunch Mr. Steinglass15referred to Michael Cohen as a "fixer?"16A.Yes.1718192021Q. And you said repeatedly during your testimony that Mr.Cohen told you he was President Trump's personal attorney?A. Yes, he did.Q. You know from your experience that private attorneyscan hold fundraisers for campaigns without being a part of thecampaign, right?2223A.Yes.2425Q. That type of fundraiser doesn't make a private attorneysome part of the campaign, correct?Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

1A.Yes.D. Pecker Recross/BovePage 1492234Q. And you were asked some questions by Mr. Steinglassjust now and before lunch about Karen McDougal, right?A.Yes.56Q. And I think before lunch Mr. Steinglass referred toMs. McDougal's story as National Enquirer gold, right?7A.Yes.8Q.Do you remember that phrase?9A.I do.1011Q.And you were very clear on cross-examination thatMs. McDougal did not want to publish that story, right?12A.That is correct.13Q.14A.15Q.She wanted to promote her name and her brand, correct?Yes.She was a legitimate celebrity at the time, right?16A.Let me say this: Did she meet the celebrity category17at that time?18A.No.19Q.She was a leading fitness model, correct?20A.21222324A.25She was a leading fitness model.Q. I think you testified on cross-examination this morningthat she was one of the first women ever on the cover of Men'sFitness magazine?That's correct. That was in 1999. I also mentionedthat was prior to my ownership, prior to the ownership.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker Recross/BovePage 14931Q.Right.2But my question is: She was on that magazine in 1999?3A.She was on that magazine, that's correct.4Q.She was also the Playmate of the Year, right?5A.Yes, she was.60Q. And she had also been on the covers of other magazinesbetween 1999 and 2016, correct?78A.That's correct.910A.11company.1213So there was real value to her brand, correct?I wouldn't say there was value to her brand to a mediaTo myself it would be.Q. There was enough value that ABC was offering her a spoton Dancing with the Stars; right?14A. Yes, because she wasshe offered them her romantic15story to sell.1617Q. And there was real value in an opportunity beyondDancing with the Stars, correct?18A.For Karen McDougal it was.19Q.Right.2021You were asked some questions about the ConciliationAgreement with the agency. Do you remember those questions?22A.Yes.2324Q. The Conciliation Agreement was entered into between theFEC and AMI, correct?25A.Yes.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker Recross/BovePage 14941Q. And the FEC actually decided to take no further action2against you personally, correct?3A.Yes, that's correct.45Q. And I just want to make sure I understand.you didn't think you were doing anything wrong, did you?In 2016,6A.No, I didn't.78Q. And in 2021, you submitted a Declaration to the FECthat said that, more or less, correct?9A.Yes.10Q.And I would like you to take a look at that11Declaration.It's not in evidence.It's Defense Exhibit A132.12MR. BOVE: I can hand one up.13THE COURT:Thank you.14A.Yes.15Q.16A.17Q.Have you had a chance to take a look?Yes, I did.That is your signature on the bottom left?18A.Yes.19Q.20A.21Q.22the FEC?It's dated May 6th, correct?May 6th, that's correct.This is a copy of the Declaration that you submitted to23A.Yes, it is.24MR. BOVE: Your Honor, defense offers Defense25A132.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker Recross/BovePage 14951067891011Please approach.1MR. STEINGLASS:2THE COURT:345(Whereupon, proceedings were held at sidebar:)MR. STEINGLASS: First of all, if he is putting inthis as a prior inconsistent statement, the witness hasalready acknowledged the inconsistency.You don't get to prove up a prior inconsistentstatement with extrinsic evidence once the witness hasacknowledged the inconsistency.Also, we haven't gotten notice of this exhibit.MR. BOVE: This is being offered in response toObjection.12the redirect.1314THE COURT:Assuming it's an inconsistency, ifit's conceded, that is the end of it. That is the end of15it.161718192021(Whereupon, the following occurred in open court:)THE COURT: Objection sustained.CONTINUED RECROSS EXAMINATIONBY MR. BOVE:Q. Mr. Pecker, at the end of your testimony yesterday, youtold a story about an Anthrax incident at AMI?22A.That's correct.2324Q. You said that President Trump was one of the firstpeople to reach out to you to see if you were doing okay?25A.Yes.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

D. Pecker Recross/Bove1Q.Page 1496That is one of the reasons that you had and still have2a long friendship with him?3A.That's correct.4Q.You know that he cares about people?5слA.106Q.7A.I do.And he cares about his family, right?Yes, I do.8Q.And you believe that, right?9A.10Q.111213Of course I do.And so you understand that the types of stories that wewere talking about during your testimony today in 2016, thosewere actually things that were stressful to him and his family,correct?1415MR. STEINGLASS: Objection.THE COURT:Sustained.16MR. BOVE:Nothing further.17THE COURT:1819202122Anything else?MR. STEINGLASS: No.THE COURT: Thank you, sir.You can step down.THE WITNESS:(Witness excused.)Thank you.232425THE COURT: People, your next witness, please.MS. HOFFINGER:The People call Rhona Graff.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

123Graff Direct/Hoffinger(Witness entering courtroom.)Page 149745сл10678COURT OFFICER: Step this way. Remain standing.Raise your right hand and face the clerk.THE CLERK: Do you solemnly swear or affirm thatthe testimony that you are going to give before this Courtand jury shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothingbut the truth; do you so swear or affirm?9THE WITNESS: I do.10R-H-O-N-A111213G-R-A-F-F, called as a witness on behalf of thePeople, was duly sworn by the Clerk of the Court, upon beingexamined, testified as follows:THE CLERK: Have a seat.14COURT OFFICER:State your name, spelling your15last name.1617181920THE WITNESS: Rhona Graff. Last name, G-R-A-F-F.COURT OFFICER:County of residence?THE WITNESS: New York County.THE COURT: Good afternoon.You may inquire.21MS.HOFFINGER:Thank you.22DIRECT EXAMINATION23BY MS. HOFFINGER:24Q.Good afternoon.25Ms. Graff, are you currently employed?Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

Graff Direct/HoffingerPage 14981A.No, I'm not.2Q.Were you previously employed?3A.Yes, I was.4Q.5A.607For what company were you previously employed?The Trump Organization.Q. And how many years did you work for the TrumpOrganization?Thirty-four years.Q. And approximately when did you start working for theTrump Organization?8A.91011A.I believe it was October of 1987.121314A.15Q.16A.171819202122Q.When, approximately, did you stop working for the TrumpOrganization?In April of 2021.What were your titles at the Trump Organization?When I initially started, I was an Executive Assistant.And then over the years, it evolved into SeniorExecutive.Then I eventually became Assistant to the President andSenior Vice-President.Q. Who was the President of the Trump Organization at thattime during the 34 years that you worked there?23A. Donald J. Trump.2425Q. What was your understanding about who owned the TrumpOrganization companies during those 34 years that you workedTheresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

GraffDirect/HoffingerPage 14991there?2A.Donald J. Trump.34Q.And who did you work directly for at the TrumpOrganization?5A.Mr. Trump.67Q. Now, did you work out of the offices of the TrumpOrganization at Trump Tower here in New York?8A.That's correct.910111213wasA.And where was your office located in Trump Tower?Well, the address was 725 Fifth Avenue, and my officeon the 26th floor.Q. Where was your office or your desk in relation toMr. Trump's office?14A. Well, over time it changed.You know, initially, when15I started, I sat outside his office.There are a few desks out16there.1718192021When I was promoted to a senior position, I had my ownoffice, which was right next door to his office.Q. During approximately the years of 2015 to 2017, wasthere an executive team of assistants who worked to supportMr. Trump's work at the Trump Organization?22A.Yes, there was.2324Q. When you were Senior Vice-President, were you the mostsenior person in that group of Executive Assistants who25 supported his work?Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

Graff Direct/HoffingerPage 15001A.2Q.3A.4Q.Yes, I was.Are you testifying here today pursuant to a subpoena?Correct, yes, I am.Do you have attorneys here with you today?5A.Yes, I do.106Q.Their names are? Who are they?7A.Pat Paoletti and Brittany--I am sorry, her last name8escapes me.91011A.I am sorry, Brittany.You have two attorneys here?Yes, I do.12Q.Who is paying for the attorneys?13A.141516A.17181920Q.The Trump Organization.And who do you understand to be, currently, the ownerof the Trump Organization?Mr. Donald Trump.Q. Now,as Mr. Trump's Executive Assistant at the TrumpOrganization, was one of your duties and responsibilitiesentering Mr. Trump's calendar appointments into the TrumpOrganization's computer system?21A.That's correct.2223Q. Did you input Mr. Trump's calendar appointments intothe computer program called Outlook?24A.Yes, I did.25Q.Were you the main person in charge of maintainingTheresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

GraffDirect/HoffingerPage 1501123Q. NOW,456Mr. Trump's calendar for the most part?A. For the most part, it was me.as Mr. Trump's Executive Assistant at the TrumpOrganization, was one of your duties and responsibilities alsoentering and maintaining Mr. Trump's contacts in the TrumpOrganization's computer system?7A.That is correct.8Q.9Did you input Mr. Trump's contacts into a computerprogram at the Trump Organization also called Outlook?10A.Yes, I did.11Q.1213Now, did Mr. Trump's contacts include information suchas phone numbers and addresses for people in his life that hewanted to be able to contact?14A.That is correct.15Q.16And did you enter Mr. Trump's contacts into thatcomputer system at the Trump Organization from about as early as172004?18A.I believe that is correct.19Q.2021As Mr. Trump's executive assistant at the TrumpOrganization, was one of your duties and responsibilities alsoto send and receive emails related to Mr. Trump's work and hisbusiness?A. Yes, I did.222324Q.And did you do that using a Trump Organization email25 address?Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

GraffDirect/HoffingerPage 15021A.Yes.23Q. Do you recall what your Trump Organization emailaddress was?4A.Yes, it was RGraff@Trump.org.com.5Q. Did you use that email address at the Trump6 Organization to conduct business for Mr. Trump and the TrumpOrganization?78A. Yes, I did.910Q. Did Mr. Trump use or communicate by email during theyears that you worked for him as an executive assistant?11A.Not that I can recall.121314151617181920Q.Ms. Graff, I am going to hand you a thumb drive or askthe officer to hand you a thumb drive.Now, the officer is handing you a thumb drivecontaining the following People's Exhibits marked foridentification; People's Exhibits 68, 69, 69B, 70, 71, 73, 75and 76 for identification. As well as People's Exhibits 82 and83 for identification, and People's Exhibit 85 foridentification.Now, before testifying here today, did you have anopportunity to review the exhibits that I just mentioned2122contained on that thumb drive?23A. Yes, I did.24Q.How do you know that you reviewed those exhibits on the25 thumb drive?Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

GraffDirect/HoffingerPage 15031A.I dated and initialled it.2Q. Do those exhibits, at least some of them, contain3redactions of some personal information?4A. Yes, they did.5Q.Did you also review and compare the same exhibits6without the redactions?7A.Yes.8Q.Were those two sets of exhibits the same except for the9redactions?10A.Yes.111213Q. Do those exhibits that I just mentioned include emailsto and from you and an individual named Madeleine Westerhout inthe year 2017 using your Trump.org email address?14A.Yes.151617Q. Does it also contain Mr. Trump's contactsMr. Trump's contacts from the Trump Organization Outlookcomputer system for Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels?some of18A.Yes.192021Q. And do those exhibits also include some calendarentries from the Trump Organization Outlook computer system fromJanuary of 2017?22A.That is correct.23Q.24And I am going to direct your attention now to theemails, which are People's Exhibits 68, 69, 69B, 70, 71, 73, 7525and 76 for identification.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

GraffDirect/HoffingerPage 1504123Do you recognize those emails as emails that you sentor received from Madeleine Westerhout during the dates and timesreflected on those emails?4A.Are they supposed to show up on the screen?5Q.106Not yet.They're the ones that you reviewed?7A.Yes, correct.8Q.910A.Who was Madeleine Westerhout?She was Mr. Trump's assistant, executive assistant whenhe went to the White House.11Q.12A.That was her job at the time of these emails in 2017?That is my understanding.131415Q.And did you send to and receive from Ms. Westerhoutthese emails as part of the regular course of your work at theTrump Organization for Mr. Trump?16A.Yes, I did.17Q. And did you send and receive those using your Trump18 Organization email address?19A.2021Correct.Q. And was it part of the regular course of your work atthe Trump Organization for you to send and receive thoseemails?2223A. Yes, it was.24Q.And were you under a business duty to do so accurately?25A.I was.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

GraffDirect/Hoffinger12Page 1505Q. Now, during the year 2017, were you aware that theTrump Organization maintained a server that hosted its emails?3A.Yes.45Q. Do those servers capture information associated withemails, including the "to," the "from," "the date," and the6"time sent?"7A.Yes, they did.891011Q.12Q.Was that information generally accurately contained inthe header of each of the emails?A. Yes, they were.Did you expect that information to be accuratelyrecorded in the email system in the Trump Organization?13A.Yes.141516Q. Were those emails and their headers captured andmaintained on the Trump Organization server in the ordinarycourse of business of the Trump Organization?17A.Yes, correct.181920Q. And were the emails that you reviewed contained inthese exhibits to be the standard Trump Organization email""format, including the headers "to, "from, "date," and "time21sent?"22A.Yes.232425Q. Now, with respect to the exhibits, People's Exhibits82 and 83 for identification, which of those contacts did yourecognize to be Mr. Trump's contact for Karen McDougal andTheresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

GraffDirect/HoffingerPage 1506789101Stormy Daniels that were entered into and maintained in the2Trump Organization Outlook computer system?3A.Yes, I did.456Q. And, now, I just want to direct your attention tothe last exhibit, which is People's Exhibit 85 foridentification.Did you recognize those to be calendar entries forMr. Trump for various dates between January 16th and January19th of 2017, that were entered into and maintained in the TrumpOrganization Outlook computer system?11A.Yes, I did.12Q.13And for each of these various types of records that wejust discussed that you reviewed, emails, contacts and calendar14entries, were each of those generated in the regular and15ordinary course of business of the Trump Organization?16A.Yes, that is correct. Yes.1718Q.to make and keep each of those records?Was it part of the business of the Trump Organization19A.Yes, it was.20Q.Were those entries in those records made at or close to21the time of the transactions or events to which they relate?22A.Yes, they were.2324Q. Were the person or persons who made those records undera business duty to do so accurately?25A.Yes.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

12345слGraff Direct/HoffingerPage 1507MS.HOFFINGER: At this time, your Honor, I offerinto evidence People's Exhibits 68, 69, 69B, 70, 71, 73,75, 76, 82 and 83 and 85.THE COURT: Any objection?MS. NECHELES: No objection.THE COURT: Those exhibits are accepted into1067evidence.8910(Whereupon, Exhibits 68, 69, 69B, 70, 71, 73, 75,76, 82, 83 and 85 were received into evidence.)MS. HOFFINGER:Thank you, your Honor.11121314I can take the thumb drive back.MS. HOFFINGER: Can we now put up, which is inevidence, I would like to see People's Exhibit 82. Thatwill come up on your screen.15(Displayed.)161718Q. So showing you People's Exhibit 82. Can you pleaseexplain to the jury what this is?A. It's an entry in "contacts" for Karen McDougal and it19lists herit's redacted, but it lists her business phone2021number, business address, and email address, and then there is anotation for an old address.22Q.So is there a total of two physical addresses listed?23A.Yes.24Q.25A.And a cell phone number and an email address?Correct.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

GraffDirect/HoffingerPage 1508Q. Did you create this contact for Karen McDougal in theTrump Organization's computer system for Mr. Trump?123A.I believe I did.45слMS. HOFFINGER: You can take that down now.Can we please show for everyone People's Exhibit83, also in evidence.(Displayed.)10678Q.Can you please tell the jury what that is on your9screen?10A.It's an entry in our contact system for Stormy, Stormy11Daniels.I believe it contains her mobile phone number.12Q. And did you13you said you understand this to be acontact for Stormy Daniels; is that right?14A.Correct.15Q.16Did you create this contact for Stormy Daniels in theTrump Organization's computer system for Mr. Trump?17A.I believe I did.18MS. HOFFINGER:You can take that down now.192021Thank you.Q. Now, did you on one occasion see Stormy Danielsphysically waiting in the reception area of the offices of Trump22Tower?232425A. I have a vague recollection of seeing her in thereception area on the 26th floor.Q. And did you see her at that time, prior to Mr. TrumpTheresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

GraffDirect/HoffingerPage 15091running for President, beginning in 2015?2A.To the best of my recollection, yes.34Q. And when you saw her at Trump Tower, did you know atthat time that she was an adult film actress?5A. Yes, I did.106Q.Now, I am going to ask you to take a look at7MS. HOFFINGER: Please put up for everyone8910People's Exhibit 85 in evidence.(Displayed.)Can you tell us what this is?11A.It's an entry in the electronic appointment calendar,12dated January 17, 2017, at 1 p.m.1314Q.I apologize.Is this Page 1?15Without blowing it up, let me ask you a general16question about this exhibit.There are a number of calendar17entries in this exhibit?18A.Correct.192021Q. Are these documents contained in this exhibit calendarentries for Mr. Trump from approximately the dates of January16th to January 19th of 2017?22A.Correct.232425Q.MS. HOFFINGER: If we could please put up Page 6.(Displayed.)Can you tell us what this document reflects?Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

Graff Direct/Hoffinger1A.Page 1510It's a notation in the Trump Organization appointment2calendar, the executive folder, for a Teleprompter practice34510session on the 25th floor of Trump Tower, on January 16, 2017,at 10 a.m.Q. And does this show that Mr. Trump was working at TrumpTower on January 16, 2017?A.I believe it reflects that.MS. HOFFINGER: Can we just put up Page 10 of the678910111213A.14same exhibit, please.Blow it up.(Displayed.)Can you tell us what this reflects?It reflects an appointment that was scheduled withAinsley Earhardt from Fox & Friends, taking place on the 25thfloor at Trump Tower, on January 17 2017, at 9 a.m.Q. Do you believe you entered this calendar entry in theTrump calendar?Q. Does this show that Donald Trump was working at TrumpTower on January 17, 2017?15161718A.Yes.192021A.222324Q.25A.It should reflect that.MS. HOFFINGER: Can we show Page 1.(Displayed.)What does this document show?It's another entry in the appointment calendar for aTheresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

GraffDirect/Hoffinger12345A.10678Q.Page 1511Teleprompter practice session on the 25th floor in Trump Tower,on January 17, 2017, at 1 p.m.Q. This also shows Mr. Trump was working at Trump Tower onJanuary 17, 2017?Correct.MS. HOFFINGER: Can we show Page 5, please.(Displayed.)What does this calendar entry show?9A.This reflects an appointment made for a Michael Allen10per Hope Hicks for a photo shoot for the Washington Post. That11was to take place on the 25th floor lobby area of Trump Tower.12And the date was January 17, 2017, at 12:30.13Q.Do you know who Hope Hicks is?14A.Yes, I do.15Q.Who was she?16A.She was the communications person for the campaign.17Q.Does this calendar entry also show that Mr. Trump was1819working at Trump Tower on January 17, 2017?A. Yes, it does.20MS. HOFFINGER: Can we show Page 2, please.2122Q.232425(Displayed.)What does this calendar entry show?A. It refers to another Teleprompter practice session onthe 25th floor conference room at Trump Tower, on January 18,2017, at 1 p.m.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

GraffDirect/Hoffinger12Page 1512Q. Does this show that Mr. Trump was still working atTrump Tower during the day on January 17, 2017?3A.Yes, it does.4Q.What does this calendar entry show?567891011A. This denotes the time that Mr. Trump was departingTrump Tower in route to LaGuardia Airport on January 19, 2017,at 12:30.Okay.MS. HOFFINGER: Can we show Page 4, please.(Displayed.)A. That denotes the anticipated wheels-up time from12LaGuardia to D.C. Airport in Washington.That is for13January 19, 2017, at 1 p.m.141516Q. Was January 19, 2017, the day before Mr. Trump'sinauguration in Washington D.C. on January 20 of 2017?A. I believe it was.17MS. HOFFINGER:Nothing further.18CROSS EXAMINATION19BY MS. NECHELES:20Q.Good afternoon.21How are you today?22A.Good afternoon.23Q.24You were asked on direct examination about working forPresident Trump, right?25A.Correct.Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

GraffDirect/HoffingerPage 15131Q.You worked for President Trump for 34 years;is that2_ correct?3A.That is correct.4Q.What was it like working for President Trump?5A.I never had to do the same day twice in all that time.७It wasa very stimulating, exciting, just a fascinating place to7be.89A.10and11And was he a good boss?I think that he was fair. And, you know, he was fairwhat is the word I was looking for a respectful bossto me in all that time.12Q.13A.He promoted you a number of times?He did.14Q.Gave you a lot of responsibility?15A.16My responsibilities definitely evolved over the yearswhen I was there.171819202122(Senior Court Reporter Theresa MagniccariWas relieved by Senior Court ReporterLaurie Eisenberg.)232425Theresa MagniccariSenior Court Reporter

R. GraffCross/NechelesPage 1514123AAnd he respected you; right?MS. HOFFINGER:I'd like to think so.Objection.4THE COURT:Overruled.56ARespected your intelligence?I don't think I would have been there 34 years if he78didn't.What were your days like?9AAgain, every single day was different. That was part10of why it was a very unusual place to be. There was no typical11day, but I usually get there early in the morning before he1213came in. You know, kind of get his office ready for the day.You know, look at the calendar, see what was happening that14day. You know, kind of anticipated what needed to be done.15Those kinds of things.16Q And he was working on a whole variety of things;17correct?18AAlways.19QHe was in the real estate business; right?20ARight.2122It evolved from when I started. It was primarily realestate when I started, and through the years it evolved into2 223many businesses.24QHe wrote books?25A Right. Many books.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

R. Graff Cross/Necheles1234Page 1515Obviously, he entered into the television realm when TheApprentice started, sports, you know, in many areas.A lot of licensing deals?A Licensing deals, right, once The Apprentice came5 along. The Licensing Division became a big part of the company.10Lots of speaking engagements?Political fundraisers?67ACorrect.89A1011A12Correct.And you helped with all those things; right?I did.Your discussions with President Trump, were they13 solely about business?Afamily?Ninety-nine point nine percent of the time.Did you discuss things other than business? Your14151617AOn occasion.181920On occasion, he would ask me, "How is your family doing?"Sometimes, if it was a long day in the office, Iappreciated it, he poked his head in and would say, "Go home toyour family." It was very thoughtful of him.I didn't always go because I wouldn't get up and leave, but21222324that.25I thought it was a nice extra touch that he would think to doDid President Trump invite you and your husband to hisLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

R. Graff-Cross/Necheles1inauguration?2AYes, he did.3Did he arrange for you to sit up close?4AI was on the platform.5слPage 1516I don't think I was that close. I don't think I deserved to6 be that close, frankly; but it was an honor to be on the7platform.89A10111213That was a special place to be sitting?I'd say it was a pretty unique, memorable experience.Now, you were asked on direct examination right nowabout Stormy Daniels; correct?ARight.Am I correct that part of your job duties was to workwith the producers of the TV show The Apprentice?AThat was one of the things that I did, yes.And President Trump was actively involved in producingThe Apprentice; correct?1415161718AI'd say he was fairly hands-on, yes.19It was a very popular television show; right?20A21At the time it was probably "the" most populartelevision show.22Am I correct that it brought many people to Trump23Tower?24AThere was a lot of interest, you know, globally,25 nationally, internationally, about The Apprentice.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

R. Graff Cross/Necheles12345Page 1517And it made President Trump into a big star; correct?A I think it elevated him to a whole other platform,from being primarily known as a businessman to being anentertainer. Almost at that point, you know, rock star status.And he was constantly on the cover of magazines inthat time period?AI think that's fair to say, yes.And The Apprentice was a very profitable show forPresident Trump?MS. HOFFINGER: Your Honor, I'm going to objectat this point.THE COURT:Sustained.678910111213141516AI think so.1718More when it involved Celebrity Apprentice than he was inthe initial few years of it.19What was Celebrity Apprentice?20ADuring that time period, with respect to StormyDaniels, President Trump was very involved in and interested infinding contestants for The Apprentice; correct?2122232425When the show officially began, they put out a kind ofgeneral casting call for people to be on the show. So it wasjust regular people that wanted to apply and be on television.And then I think they were looking for a new format as theyears went on, kind of bring new juice to the show, and theydecided now to make it The Celebrity Apprentice. So, instead ofLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

R. Graff Cross/NechelesPage 15181other casts members, they would bring in well-known people,2really well-known people to join the cast.3Celebrity Apprentice began in 2007; is that correct?4A567I believe so.And during that time period, President Trump wouldtalk constantly about what celebrities would be good to cast onthat show; right?8AI think he took a good interest in it.910A1112He would talk about that with you; right?With me and many of the other people in the office.And you understood that he wanted celebrities who werecolorful or interesting people to be on that show; right?13AI think that's a smart casting choice, yes.1415A1617right?That's what he would talk about; right?He would when we were talking about casting, yes.He wanted people who were controversial sometimes;18ASome maybe more than others.19202122232425That was because President Trump believed about havingcontroversial peopleMS. HOFFINGER: I'm going to object at this time.THE COURT: Sustained.MS. HOFFINGER: Can we approach?THE COURT: Yes.(Whereupon, the following proceedings were heldLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

R. Graff-Cross/NechelesPage 1519MS. HOFFINGER:1at sidebar:)2345слThis is going way beyond thescope of the direct. I let it go for a little while, butthis is the basis of my objection.THE COURT: I agree.1067891011121314MS. NECHELES:coming up.She asked about Stormy DanielsStormy Daniels came up there because she wasbeing cast.MS. HOFFINGER: So, ask him the question.THE COURT: One second.MS. NECHELES: To get to that, I have to explainPresident Trump was very involved in that.Our whole defense or a lot of our defense inthis case is he was involved with Stormy Daniels overThe Apprentice.She knows directly about that.They asked on direct about Stormy Daniels comingup to the office and being in the cast. That's why theycalled her.1516171819202122about that.232425THE COURT: They asked a couple of questionsYou're going really far afield.Why don't you ask--MS. NECHELES: I have to talk about TheLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

12345сл106786101112R. Graff Cross/NechelesPage 1520Apprentice so they understand.latitude.THE COURT: Get to it.MS. NECHELES:Can I have a little latitude?THE COURT: I think you already had a little(Whereupon, the following proceedings were heldin open court:)Am I correct, you would often hear President Trumptalking on the phone with people who were interested in beingon The Apprentice?MS. HOFFINGER:Objection.THE COURT:Sustained.131415AWell, his office was right next to yours; right?Well, I could not hear. There was a big wall behindus, and I couldn't hear him on the phone unless it was very16loud.171819Okay.But, you heard discussions about him discussing aboutpeople being on The Apprentice; right?2021A He would vocalize sometimes people that he wasinterested in to members of the staff, you know, and I would22overhear it.2324I don't recall him saying directly to me, but it wasdiscussed.25Q Am I correct that prior to Stormy Daniels coming up toLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

R.Graff Cross/NechelesPage 1521the office at Trump Tower, you recall hearing President Trumpdiscuss whether Stormy Daniels would be a good contestant?A I vaguely recall hearing him say that she was one ofthe people that may be an interesting contestant on the show.12345678AUh, yes.9Okay.And the prosecutor just referred to her, I think, as an"adult film actress";correct?10And you understood that to mean that she was,colloquially speaking, a p*rn star; right?And you knew she was a p*rn star because you had heard11AI'd say that's a good synonym for it.121314A1516discussions about her; right?Yes.And you had heard President Trump say that he thoughtshe would be an interesting addition to The Apprentice;correct?I can't recall a specific instance when I heard it.It was part of the office chatter.1718A1920212223AI assumed that.And when Stormy Daniels showed up to Trump Tower tomeet President Trump, you understood that she was there todiscuss being cast for The Apprentice; correct?24And I understand your assumption was based on the25 discussions you had heard, the office chatter; right?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

R. Graff-Cross/NechelesPage 15221ACorrect.2Now,some of the exhibitsone of the exhibits that3you were shown is People's ExhibitPeople's Exhibit 73.45сл1067MS. NECHELES: Can we pull that up?It's in evidence.(Whereupon, an exhibit is shown on the screens.)You saw this before; correct?8AFedEx label. Yes, Federal Express.9That was a FedEx label that you had requested?10ANo. Ioh. Yes. Yes.111213I guess it was requested by Madeleine Westerhout.That was because you were sending checks down to theWhite House?14ANo.1516171819AI was not.202122I don't know why she requested it.Okay.Were you involved at all in sending checks down to theWhite House once President TrumpNo,Okay.But, when you were President Trump's assistant, one of thethings that he would do was sign checks; right?23AYes. Of course. Yes.24And am I correct that when he would sign checks, he25was often multitasking?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

R. Graff Cross/NechelesPage 1523123A45MS. HOFFINGER: Objection, your Honor.THE COURT: Overruled. Overruled.It happened on occasion. It would depend what wasgoing on at the moment and how important the checks were thatneeded to be signed.6Okay.78But, you would often see him on the phone when he wassigning checks?9AI believe it happened. It wasn't unusual.101112And he would also sign checks when he was meeting withother people; right?MS. HOFFINGER:13THE COURT:Objection.Sustained.14QOne of the exhibits is People's Exhibit 70; am I15correct?16171819MS. NECHELES: If you could pull that up.(Whereupon, an exhibit is shown on the screens.)Page 1 is a memo.You see that in front of you?20AYes, I do.21222324AMS. NECHELES: Can we look at Page 2 also?(Whereupon, an exhibit is shown on the screens.)It's a newspaper article; right?Correct.25Madeleine Westerhoutwho is Madeleine Westerhout?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

R.Graff Cross/Necheles1AShe was theMr. Trump'sPage 1524President Trump's5A672 Executive Assistant in the White House.3And she sent you this and asked you to send this4 newspaper article to Allen Weisselberg; right?Correct.It was a common practice of President Trump to cliparticles like this; correct?8910it was, but certainly when he was at The Trump Organization,was very common.AI don't know when he was at the White House how commonit11He would send them to various people; right?12AYes.1314right?He would often write a little note on the article;15A1617Often.So,Weisselberg was not at all unusual; right?President Trump sending an article to Allen18ANo.192021222324During the time you were working for him, you saw himsend thousands of articles to people; correct?A Over the time period I was there, I would say that'sreasonable.And you were asked on direct examination, also, aboutwhether The Trump Organization was paying your legal fees;25correct?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

R. Graff-Cross/NechelesPage 15251AI believe so.23And you met with the prosecutor a number of timesbefore testifying here today?4AYes, I did.5106And the only reason you're here, testifying today, isbecause you worked at The Trump Organization; right?7AI believe so.89A1011A1213AYou have nothing personal to add to this; right?I can't believe I do, no.You don't want to be here; do you?Correct.And lawyers are expensive; aren't they?I haven't seen the bills, but I assume they are.14And you understand The Trump Organization is paying15for the lawyers for all of the employees; right?16AThat is my understanding.171819202122232425AAnd that's because they're all only here becauseMS. HOFFINGER: Objection, your Honor.THE COURT: Sustained. Sustained.No oneis the payment of your legal feesconditioned at all on how you testify?A No, that's not my understanding.No one from The Trump Organization has told you how totestify; right?Absolutely not.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

R. Graff Cross/NechelesPage 15261You're just here testifying to the truth; right?2AThat's correct.3And the only reason your legal fees are being paid is4because5106789101112131415MS. HOFFINGER: Objection, your Honor.THE COURT: Sustained.MS. NECHELES: Thank you.I have no further questions.THE COURT: Anything else?MS. HOFFINGER: Nothing, your Honor.THE COURT: You may step down.Please approach.MR. BLANCHE: Your Honor, may we approach?Oh.(Whereupon, the witness is excused from the161718192021stand.)MR. TRUMP: (To the witness as she leaves thewell area) Are you okay?(Whereupon, the witness exits the courtroom.)THE COURT: Please approach.(Whereupon, the following proceedings were held22at sidebar:)23THE COURT: Yes,Mr. Blanche?2425MR. BLANCHE: My request is, after the nextwitness, before cross, if we could have a brief break.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

12345слProceedingsPage 1527We didn't know this witness was testifying, andour printer in the back broke. My understanding is they'retrying to fix it. If it's not fixed, I'll just need topull stuff up on my iPad.THE COURT: This is actually--this is the besttime to take a break, right now. We'll take about aten-minute break right now.Who is your next witness?MS.HOFFINGER: Mr. Farro.THE COURT: Thank you.(Whereupon, the following proceedings were heldin open court:)THE COURT: Jurors, we're going to take our1067891011121314recess.15161718192021*22232425You can step out.(Whereupon, the jurors and the alternate jurorsare excused.)THE COURT: Let's take 15 minutes.MS. HOFFINGER: Thank you.(Whereupon, a recess is taken.)*THE CLERK: Continuing case on trial, People v.Donald J. Trump.All parties are present.THE COURT: Call your next witness.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

ProceedingsPage 152812345сл10MS. MANGOLD: The People call Gary Farro.MR. STEINGLASS: The jury is not here, though.THE COURT: Actually, hold on.Let's let the jury come.Thank you.COURT OFFICER: All rise.Jury entering.(Whereupon, the jurors and the alternate jurorsare present and properly seated.)THE CLERK: Continuing case on trial, People v.Donald J. Trump.67891011121314151617GARYAll parties and all jurors are present.THE COURT: People, call your next witness.MS. MANGOLD: The People call Gary Farro.COURT OFFICER: Witness entering.(Whereupon, the witness takes the witness stand.)FARRO, having first been duly sworn and/or18 affirmed by the court clerk, was examined and testified as19follows:20COURT OFFICER: State your full name, spelling21your last name.22THE WITNESS: Gary Farro. F-A-R-R-0.23COURT OFFICER:Your county of residence.24THE WITNESS: I live in Monmouth County, New25Jersey.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/Mangold12THE COURT: Good afternoon, Mr. Farro.MS. MANGOLD: May I inquire?3THE COURT: You may inquire.4DIRECT EXAMINATION5BY MS. MANGOLD:6Good afternoon, Mr. Farro.7AGood afternoon.Page 15298910I'm going to ask you to speak into the microphone andslowly so the court reporter can take down what you're saying.Where do you work?11AI work at Flagstar Bank.12What do you do there?13A1516I am a Client Adviser, also a Managing Group Director,14 Managing Director, Executive Manager.Q Are you here to testify voluntarily or complying witha subpoena?17AVoluntarily.18Are you sure?19AWell, I did receive a subpoena after.20Are you represented by counsel?21AI am.22Are they here today?23AYes, they are.24Can you tell everybody about your educational25 background?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15301ASure.28910A1134567I attended Monmouth University, received a Bachelor's infinance. And I've also attended Executive Education Programs atThe Wharton School.And what did you do after you graduated?A After I graduated, I worked at a wirehouse, which isan investment firm, doing brokerage, and then went into bankingshortly thereafter.Where did you work in banking?I started off working for a bank which was calledFirst Union Bank. They later became Wachovia Bank. Then, when12they were purchased by Wells Fargo Bank, I left and went to13141516First Republic. I spent 15 years at First Republic, until lastyear's demise. And then, last year, went to Flagstar Bank.One step at a time.When did you join First Republic?17AIn March of 2008.18Did you say you worked there for 15 years?19AThat's right.20What titles did you hold at First Republic?21AI started as a Relationship Manager. Moved on to a2223--excuse meSenior Relationship Manager. Then I moved on to an ExecutiveManaging DirectorSenior Managing Director, and24then an Executive Managing Director.25What was your title in 2016?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15311AIt was Senior Managing Director.23I think you said there came a time when you left FirstRepublic Bank?4AYes.56jury?Can you describe the circ*mstances around that for the7ASure.81011121314A1516179In March of last year, First Republic Bank was one of thebanks that went under, with Signature Bank, as well as SiliconValley Bank. And a decision needed to be made. They werepurchased by Chase Bank. And I decided to move on to anotherlocation, which is now Flagstar.Is that where you are today?Yes, it is.Turning back to your work at First Republic Bank, aspart of your work at the bank, did you receive training on thebank's policies and practices?18AYes, I did.1920Did you receive training on banking laws andprocedures that the bank was required to follow?21AYes.22Did you receive any training on the statutory and23 regulatory requirements that the bank is required to follow?24AYes.25Are there laws and regulations that govern what a bankLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15321must do when opening a new bank account for a client?2AYes, there is.34Does the bank also have policies and practices aroundopening a new bank account?5AYes, we do.67Maybe it sounds like a silly question, but when folksopen a bank account and they put information on the bank forms,8does the bank actually look at that information?9AYes, we do.10And why do they look at that information?11AWell, depending on what the information is, it will12help us determine if it's a bank account we want to open or not13open.14Q15Is that information also reviewed to ensure compliancewith various laws and regulations?16AYes, it is.17And does the bank take any steps to actually verify181920A21the information that their clients put on bank accountpaperwork?I was not sure what was done in the back office.I'm front.22Certainly, if somebody stands out immediately for――23 instance, sending currency to another sanctioned country as a24regular practice, it would be shot down.25But, we have a BSA Compliance Team that does furtherLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15331information on that.234For people who may not be more familiar with thealphabet soup of bank compliance, can you describe what BSAmeans?5A678910Sure.Bank Secrecy Act. It's the method of protecting the bankand making sure we're not doing transactions or opening anytypes of account that could present not only reputational riskto the institution, but also be against the law.So, it's a law that sets forth a number ofrequirements that the bank has to follow?That's correct.How about AML?A AML is anti-money-laundering.It's another form of oversight to ensure that clientsaren't using an account to filter money through.I think you referenced something that you referred to1112A131415161718as "the back office".19What is the back office?20ASo,a bank has three lines of defense.212223The first would be your client-facing employees, whichwould be, you know, people like myself, as well as individualswho work in the offices on the ground level, where you would do24your typical transaction.25The next would be your BSA/AML Compliance Team.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15341Above that would be Audit.234So, there were multiple different departments withinthe bank, in other words, checking to make sure that everyaccount and transaction complied with the law?5AThat's correct.678A910And turning now, specifically, to bankingtransactions--take a minute if you need water.I'm good.Were there certain types of transactions that requiredmore review by the bank?11AYes.12Can you give us some examples?13A A wire is something that is--requires multiple14151617layers of review.Account opening requires multiple layers of review.And how about types of transactions with particulartypes of people?18AYes.1920Was one of the types of transactions that requiresmore review a transaction with a political candidate?21AYes.22232425And did First Republic Bank also require more reviewfor transactions involving the media industry?A Um, not necessarily the media industry.But, if it was something that could pose reputational risk,Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/Mangold1then that would be determined.Page 1535That's above my pay grade. That2would be determined by our second level of support.3Were there any transactions that the bank did not4process at all?5AYes.67A8910Can you give us some examples?Any transaction that would be going to a sanctionedcountry, any transaction that would be going to someone whowould be considered on a person-of-interest list, potentialterrorist, something along those lines, we would not processthat transaction.Then there's also lines of business that we just decide asan institution that we will not do business with.Can you give some examples of those?AWe didn't do gambling. We wouldn't do anything in theadult entertainment. We wouldn't do anything that involved11121314151617check cashing.18192021A22232425ANo.Those are a couple of examples.Can you describe what you mean when you say "adultentertainment"?p*rno. Um, I guess you would consider them stripclubs, or anything along those lines.So, the bank wouldn't do business in the adult filmindustry, in other words?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G.Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1536there was a231What would happen if there weretransaction with paperwork that raised certain red flags? Couldthat delay a transaction?4AIt would delay an account opening or delay a wire,5yes.6Could the bank refuse to process a transaction7altogether?8AYes.のWe have the right to not do any transaction we don't feel10 comfortable with.And could a bank shut down the client's entire account1112if they found something thatin the paperwork that ran afoul13of one of the regulations?14ATo receive a bank account, yes.151617An existing account that's open already on the lendingside, no.Can you explain what you mean by that?18AWell, if someone has a mortgage already, we can't just1920close out a mortgage once it's agreed to.Have you heard the term "shell corporation"?21AI have.22What is a shell corporation?23AMy understanding of a shell corporation is an entity24that's opened up to doto receive monies and send out wires.25It doesn't have an actual business behind it.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15371QSo, it's a corporation without any business2operations?3AUh-huh.456wereAll right.Now, focusing on the 2016 time period, I think you said youa Senior Managing Director at that time?7AYes.89101112131415161718192021What were some of your responsibilities as a SeniorManaging Director?A As a Senior Managing Director, I led a team of peoplewho did the same job as me, Relationship Managers, as well asmanage my own book of business, of clients. I would be workingwith clients on their day-to-day money management needs, whichwould include checking, savings, money market, CDs, as well astheir lending needs, mortgages, lines of credit, et cetera. Aswell as doing their investment management.AWas that part of First Republic Bank's private bank?Well, First Republic Bank is a unique entity in thatit only is a private bank. There is no real retail.Although there is branches on the ground level, it wasfocused more on working with affluent and high-net-worthindividuals.222324Can you just explain at a very high level thedifference between private banking and retail banking?25A A retail banking relationship would be someone who,Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1538essentially, walks into the branch, does most of thetransactions themselves, and does not really look for too muchadvice except outside a mortgage.A private banking relationship is when you're assigned tosomeone who is a Relationship Manager who would, essentially,help you and be your point of contact for all things that you1234567need.89Were most of your clientshigh-net-worth individuals?10ANo.were all of your clients11121314151617181920212223Actually, the good thing about working for First Republicis we never set a barrier to entry.Most private banks have a minimum barrier to entry, whichwould be you have to have a certain amount in liquid assets atthe firm.We never set any barrier of entry. So I had a very widerange of clients of various different levels of wealth.About how many clients would you say you worked withwhile you were at First Republic Bank?ABefore I left, I had about eighteen hundred.You got to experience the full range of clients interms of wealth and industries?AThat's correct.24In general, in your experience, would you say that25 high-net-worth clients have more interaction with the bankingLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15391industry than retail clients?23456A Well, private banking clients tend to do more with theindividual. They see us as a center of influence and utilize usfor more of our services, whether it be on the bankingday-to-day banking side, lenders side, investment managingside. So, by way of having that singular point of contact, it7makes their lives a little easier for typically-very-busy8people, so they want that one point of contact.91011A12Despite being busy people, would you say that wealthypeople are generally more familiar with the banking system?Depends on if I could speak on that for many of myclients, I would say yes.13I would not say "all".14Q15I think you said you had clients in a number ofdifferent industries. Would that include the real estate16industry?17A18192021Yes.About how many clients did you have that worked in thereal estate industry?AIt's hard to say, but those who are fully focused inthe real estate industry would probably be in the 20 or 3022 range.232425In general, were real estate clients more familiarwith the banking system than an average client?A I would say so, because they did a fair amount ofLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/Mangold1Page 1540borrowing on the buildings or whatever they were purchasing, sothey learned the banking system a little bit more.23Did you have any clients that were lawyers?4AYes.567And based on your work at the bank, are you able totell the difference between the different type of bank accountsmaintained by lawyers?8AYes.9Now,I think you said earlier that you oversaw client101112relationships.Can you describe a little bit more what that means?Are you filling out paperwork day to day for the clients?13ANo.141516I have a team that works behind me.I would make suggestions on what types of accounts to openor in many cases, you know, it would be lending that I would17get more involved with, lending and wealth management.18192021But, I had a team of people that worked under me that wouldhandle the day-to-day paperwork, and I handled thetransactions.So, you handled the relationships?22AYes.2324So, clients would work with you, and you reached outto other folks in the bank in order to get their needs met?25AYes.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1541Do you know someone named Michael Cohen?How do you know him?12AYes, I do.345слAleft asMichael Cohen was assigned to me after a colleaguea client in 2015.Do you know how long Michael Cohen had been a clientof the bank when he was assigned to you in 2015?10678AI do not know exactly.91011121314151617181920Had he been a client of the bank for some time by thetime you took over the client relationship?ADefinitely a couple of years or so. I'm not sureexactly how much time, though.Do you know why you were selected to take over theMichael Cohen relationship?A I can only tell you what I was told, um, that I wasselected because of my knowledge and my ability to handle, um,individuals that may be a little challenging.AHow long did you work with Michael Cohen?Um, from 2015 until I believe it was 2018 or '19. I'mnot exactly sure of the end date.21And in those several years where you worked with him,22did you have frequent interactions with him?23ANot frequent, no.24Michael did a lot of his own business. And, frankly, I25 didn't find him that difficult. He did a lot of his ownLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15421business by walking across the street. We had an office that2opened right across the street from his office. So, he would do345his day-to-day stuff there.But, anything he did need, he called me, and it was alwayssomething that was urgent.106Where was Mr. Cohen's office?7AIt was in the Trump Tower.8Do you know where that is?9AI think it's Fifth Avenue and--in Midtown.1011You said that there's a First Republic Bank branchclose to that office?12AYeah, 56th and Madison.1314person?And Mr. Cohen would frequently go to that branch in15A1617A18Yes.What was Mr. Cohen's profession?He was a lawyer or is a lawyer. I'm not sure.And what company did he work for?19AThe Trump Organization.202122AUm,2324Do you know if he worked for anybody in particular atThe Trump Organization?only what he had told me, that he worked for, um,former President Donald Trump.Did he talk about that frequently?25AYes.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15431He was very excited to be working for him.23Based on your several years of working with Mr. Cohen,can you identify his home address versus his business address?4AI could.56A78And are you able to identify his signature?I believe I can.Did Mr. Cohen have more than one account at FirstRepublic Bank?9AYes.10Did he already have several accounts at the bank when1112you took over the client relationship?AHe did.1314And did his accounts at the bank relate to his work atThe Trump Organization, or were they his personal accounts andhis personal business?AThey were his personal accounts and personal entities.I didn't open any accounts for The Trump Organization.Do you know how many accounts Mr. Cohen had opened bythe time you took over the client relationship in 2015?151617181920212223Did he open additional accounts while you were24managing the client relationship?25AHe did.A Not exactly, but I believe it was anywhere betweenfour and five, if you're including lending relationships aswell as an account.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G.Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15441Based on your experience, was Mr. Cohen familiar with2the requirements to open a bank account?3AYes.4And was he familiar with the account paperwork he had56to fill out in order to do that?AYes.78Did Mr. Cohen understand that there was a reviewprocess that had to take place by the bank before he opened an9account?10AUm,I assume he would be, yes, because he's done it11before.12131415All right.Switching gears a little bit.During your time at First Republic Bank, did you becomefamiliar with their recordkeeping practices?16AWith the recordkeeping of First Republic?17Yes.18AYes,I did.192021Do you understand that you are testifying here today,in addition to other things, as a custodian of records forFirst Republic Bank?2223AYes.All right.2425Bear with me because I'm going to have a lot of questionson this.Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 154521Before testifying today, did you have an opportunity toreview files marked for identification as People's Exhibits 3613through 364 and 366 through 379?4AYes.5Do those files contain First Republic Bank emails,6banking documents, and client account records?7AYes.8910Were all of those records kept and maintained by FirstRepublic Bank for the purpose of evidencing or reflecting theactivity of the bank?11AYes.1213names,Did you look at two sets of documents with those fileone with redactions and one without redactions?14AYes.1516And aside from the redactions, are those two versionsidentical?17AYes.181920212223--24A25And was the information that was redacted personalidentifying information?A Can you explain the question, please?Sure.Was the people's personal phone numbers, email addressesand the likeYes. Because it's documentation, yes.redacted?Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

1AYes.G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 154623456All right.Turning to the emails in the files marked foridentification as People's Exhibits 361 through 364 and 366through 379, did First Republic Bank use emails in the regularcourse of its business?7AYes.89 clients and bank transactions?Did that include the use of emails related to bank10AYes.1112Was it the regular course of business for FirstRepublic Bank to use emails for those purposes?13AYes.1415Were the emails sent and received at or around thetime of the bank transactions and client communications?16AYes.1718Were First Republic Bank employees under a businessduty to convey information accurately in emails?19AAlways.20Did First Republic Bank have email servers?21AYes.22Do you know where those email servers were located?23ASan Francisco, at our home base.24Were emails that were sent and received by First25 Republic Bank employees stored on those email servers as partLaurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15471of the ordinary course of business?2AYes.345Did the servers record the content of the messages,the senders, recipients, dates and times for each email sent orreceived using that server?6A For everything I reviewed, yes.789(Whereupon, Senior Court Reporter Lisa Kramskyrelieves Senior Court Reporter Laurie Eisenberg, and thetranscript continues on the following page.)10111213141516171819202122232425Laurie Eisenberg, CSR, RPRSenior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/Mangold1Page 1548(The following proceedings are continued from the2previous page.)34567CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATIONBY MS. MANGOLD:And, to your knowledge, did the email server record andstore that information accurately?8AYes.910111213Did First Republic Bank rely on that information beingaccurately recorded and maintained?A Absolutely.So for the emails contained in the People's Exhibitsmarked for identification, were all of the emails and any14 related attachments sent or received through the First RepublicBank email server?1516AI'm sorry,can you repeat the question?17181920Sure.Specifically looking at the email files that you reviewed,were those emails and any related attachments sent or receivedthrough the First Republic Bank email servers in San Francisco?21AYes.22Do all of the emails that you looked at reflect bank23 transactions or client communications?2425A Yes, they do.Are the types of emails included the same types ofLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15491emails that were routinely generated as part of the first order2of business at First Republic Bank?3AYes.4Do any of the emails contained reflect personal or5 non-business related activity?6ANo.78Now, and I think you said you also saw First RepublicBank banking records in those files; is that right?9AThat's right.1011Did that include account forms, bank account statementsand wire transfer forms?12AYes, in addition to KYC forms as well.13141516AAnd can you just explain what you mean by KYC forms?KYC is "Know Your Customer." It's a way in whichthat we can help identify that the customer is, in fact, whothey say they are.17And is KYC something that's in place as a result of a18law that banks are required to follow?19AYes.202122Were the types of bank account records that you lookedat the type of records that are routinely generated and reliedupon by the bank?23AYes.2425Did First Republic create and maintain the bank recordsin the regular course of its business?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1550Was it the regular course of the business of FirstRepublic to create and maintain these bank account records?1AYes.234AYes.5678910Were the entries in the records made at or around thetime of the recorded events or transactions?AYes.Were the people who made the entries in the recordsunder a business duty to do so accurately?AYes.111213And the last category, would you say that there werealso client account records within the files marked foridentification?14AThere are.151617Were the types of client account records included thetypes of business records that were routinely provided byclients to the bank as part of the bank's business?18AYes.192021Were they the types of business records that the bankroutinely collected, reviewed and maintained in the regularcourse of its business?22AYes, they are.2324Was it the regular course of business to collect,review and maintain these types of records?25AYes.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1551QDo the client account records in these files include12the types of records that the bank routinely relied upon in3making determinations about its clients?4AYes.560And did these documents conform with the statutory andregulatory requirements that you were familiar with?7AYes.8MS. MANGOLD: I would now offer People'sExhibit 361 through 364, and 366 through 379 into evidence.THE COURT: Any objections?MR. BLANCHE: Just one moment.(Counsel confer.)MR. BLANCHE: Thank you, your Honor. No objection.THE COURT: People's 361 through 364 and 366through 379 are accepted into evidence.(So marked in evidence.)MS. MANGOLD: Can we pull up People's Exhibit 361,which is now in evidence.(Displayed.)Mr. Farro, can you see that on your screen?910111213141516171819202122AI can.2324A25Is this a First Republic Bank email?Yes, it is.MS. MANGOLD: And can we blow up the top portionLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 155212with the words, "there you can."Is that easier to read?3AIt is.4All right. What date was this email sent?5слAThis email was sent on 10/11/2016.106And who was it sent to?7AIt's sent to me.8And who was it sent from?9AIt was sent from Liz Rappaport, who is my assistant.10And did she go by any other names?11ALizzie.12What's the subject of the email?13A"Missed call from Michael Cohen."14And can you read the text of the email without the15phone number information, please.16A171819Sure. "Michael Cohen just called for you. I let himknow that you were out of the office and were unavailable.asked that you please return his call as soon as you areavailable at 3212 or on his cell 0114."He20MS. MANGOLD:And can we pull up People's Exhibit212223362 in evidence.(Displayed.)MS. MANGOLD: And pull up the top portion of that24email.25Is this a First Republic Bank email?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15531AYes, it is.2What date was this sent?3AOn 10/13/2016.45слAAnd who was it sent from?It was sent from Elizabeth Rappaport to me.And what is the subject of this email?1067A"Missed call, Michael Cohen, Regarding:Important."89AAnd can you read the content of the email to the jury?"Please return Michael Cohen's call when you are10available today regarding an important matter."1112ADo you recall what these two emails related to?Yes, I do.1314 response to these messages?And did you ultimately connect with Mr. Cohen in15AI spoke to him briefly after that, yes.1617A18Can you describe that call for the jury?Sure. I gave him a call, and he had mentioned that hewanted to open a new LLC account, so I referred him to my team."When you say "LLC account, what does that mean?1920AThat's a Limited Liability Company.2122And does that mean that Michael Cohen had a LimitedLiability Company for which he wanted to open an account?23AThat's correct.24Did he say anything else about the account or the LLC25at that time?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

1A2345слG. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1554Oh, he said it was an account for real estate.MS. MANGOLD:Can we take those down and pull upPeople's Exhibit 363 now in evidence.(Displayed.)Is this another First Republic Bank email?Yes, it is.All right.MS. MANGOLD: Now, I would like to pull up thedate and time on the bottom email in the chain on the first106A78(Displayed.)What date and time was this sent?Thursday, October 13, 2016, at 9:23 Eastern StandardMS. MANGOLD: Can we also pull up the date and timeof the top email.910page.111213A14Time.151617181920A212223A2425(Displayed.)Now, traditionally, the top email is a later email inthe chain; right?It is the later email in the chain, yes.And what is the date and time stamp on the top email inthis chain?10/13/2016, 7:48 a.m. What they failed to notice thereis that's Pacific time.Yeah, can you explain how you sent an email before theLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15551email that you received?2AWell, I am not in the business of being in Back to the3Future, so this was definitely the way that it's pulled through4our server in San Francisco, so that would be the time in567Pacific.Q So the bottom email on the chain is in Eastern StandardTime and the top email on the chain is in Pacific Time?8AThat's correct.9And is it going to be the case for the rest of the10files inand emails in the exhibits that we just talked11about, that the top email chain only is going to be in Pacific12Time?13A14That's correct. The most recent email or the lastemail would be the Pacific Time; everything below it would be in15Eastern Time.16All right.Turning now to the top email in the chain.17You said this is an email from you?18(Displayed.)19A This is an email from me to one of my team members,20 Olivia Cassin.21And this was after the phone call with Michael Cohen, and hementioned that he needs an account opened for Michael Cohen23 immediately and he wants no address on checks.22Was it unusual for Mr. Cohen to request something get2425done immediately?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15561A2It was not.And it said in the email he wants no address on the3checks.4Is that unusual?5678910A Not really for an LLC account, because most people whoare employed by someone else do not use that business addressfor an LLC account, and they don't want to share their homeaddresses for reasons of being anonymous.Turning now to the bottom email.Is this an email from Mr. Cohen to you?11(Displayed.)12AYes, it is.13And are there attachments to the email?14AI can't tell by looking at this.15If you look at the top most16AOh, yes, yes, there is, based upon thethere is an1718attachment, a PDF attached to it.MS. MANGOLD: Can we flip to the second and third19page of the PDF.20(Displayed.)21**22Can you see those?23AYes.2425AWhat type of document is this?This is a document that is provided by the IRS thatLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15571gives an Employee Identification Number for a new account, a new2 business that's being opened.345сл106MS. MANGOLD: Can we zoom in on the top left whereit shows the address line.(Displayed.)78AWhat does it say there?"Resolution Consultants LLC. Michael Cohen, sole9101112AIt was13141516A1718member."Do you have an understanding of what ResolutionConsultants LLC was?consulting company.my understanding was it was a real estateAnd was that the LLC that Mr. Cohen referred to in thephone call to you earlier in that day?That's correct.And was he calling to set up an account for thisentity, Resolution Consultants LLC?19AYes.202122Turning now two pages forward.(Displayed.)Can you see that document?23AI can.24MS. MANGOLD: Can we blow up the top portion of25the document.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 155812(Displayed.)Can you describe what this is?3AYes. This is issued where the LLC was established in4Delaware.56So this would be the date of the establishment, which was onthe 13th of September, 2016.7I'm sorry, what did you say the date was?8AIt was September 13th, 2016.9Is that 13th or 30th?10AOh, I'm sorry. 30th.11Do you know what this form is called?12AIf you go back to the thing, it will go to full size,13you know, I don't know exactly what it's called.14I know it'sthis is the formal document that establishes15theit in Delaware.16Would you refer to this as an Entity Formation17Document?18A192021222324Yeah, that's what it is, it's an Entity Formation doc.Okay. Let's go one page forward. And how about this,what is this particular document?(Displayed.)A So this is the Certificate of Formation, so this goeswith the prior document.And this is the establishment of Resolution Consultants25LLC.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1559Q And who signed the Resolution Consultants Certificateof Formation document?123AMichael Cohen.4All right.5сл106And can78MS. MANGOLD:Let's take that down.we pull up People's Exhibit 364 in evidence?(Displayed.)Is this another First Republic Bank email?9AYes, it is.10And what's the date of this email?11AThe date on this email is 10/13/2016.12And what's the time stamp here?13A8:43 a.m.14And does that mean in New York it was 11:43 a.m.?15AThat's correct.1617A1819A20Who is the email to and from?It is to Michael Cohen and from Olivia Cassin.And are you also copied on the email?I am cc'd on it, yes.And can you read the substance of the email to the21jury?22AThe entirety of it?2324AJust the first paragraph. I'm sorry."Please find the attached paperwork to establish the25 account for Resolution Consultants LLC. Please complete all ofLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1560123the highlighted areas and sign where indicated.Please reviewthe information in the business information to ensure that it isaccurate."4Can you explain what was going on in this email?5AYes. The--obviously, Olivia and Michael had spoken67and she was sending him the paperwork to establish the LLCaccount for Resolution Consultants.8And this is in response to his request in the phone9101112call to you earlier that same day?Aevidence.That's correct.All right. Turning now to People's Exhibit 366 in131415(Displayed.)And pulling up the top portion of this email. Who isthis email to and from?16ATo Olivia Cassin from Michael Cohen.17What's the date of the email?18A10/13/2016, at 6:19 p.m.19And that's Pacific?20AThat's Pacific.21What's the subject of the email?22ASubject is "Regarding:Account Paperwork."2324A25Okay. And are there attachments to this?There are.All right.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1561MS. MANGOLD: Can we flip to the first page of theattachment.(Displayed.)And look at the top left portion of the page.Can youtell what type of document this is?123456A78910111213This is what we call the "master signature card."This will determine who is able to sign on behalf of theaccount.Is this a standard record that First Republic Bankrequired its clients to fill out to open an account?A Any business account would require this document.MS. MANGOLD: And can we look now at the top thirdof the page, at the box that says "account name andaddress."14151617A1819202122232425(Displayed.)What entity is this an account opening document for?Resolution Consultants LLC.And directing you now to the bottom row of that samebox where it says, "Type of Business."What does it say in "Type of Business?"A"Management consulting including HR and marketing."For people who may not know, what is managementconsulting?AManagement consulting is pretty encompassing.It would be work that you are consulting on for a number ofLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15621different types of businesses.23456In this case, through my understanding through conversationswith Michael, it was for real estate.And it says "including HR.--"Do you know do you have an understanding of what "HR"means there?7AHuman resources.89I could expand on that, if you would like.It's each account that you open has a NAICS code.10I'm sorry,are you referring to the numbers to the left1112of the word "management consulting?"AYeah, the 541611.13And you said that it's called a NAICS code?14AIt's called a NAICS, N-A-I-C-S, code.15And what is a NAICS code?16AIt identifies the type of business, so you have to17choose one of those codes.18So that's why it says:"Including HR and marketing."1920It's not as though we thought that he would be in HR andmarketing, it's just a general category.21When you say you have to choose one of those codes, who22is the person that filled in this information?23AWell, it wouldn't be me.24It would bewe would ask the client what their line of25business is, and then we would identify what would be the mostLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1563appropriate code.So is the information in these forms provided by123Mr. Cohen?4AYes.51067Turning now to the middle portion of that same page.(Displayed.)To the sentence labeled "Number 4."Does it provide you who the authorized signers on theaccount will be?8910A11Yes, the only one is Michael Cohen.Okay. Turning now to the next page. Is there a12 signature on this page?13AYes.14Do you recognize that signature?15AYes, Michael Cohen's.16And what's the date?17A181910/13/2016.Going one page forward.What type of document is this?20ASo this is the Addendum. It's an agreement to open an212223accounts and services.And this is the information that we would gather on each ofthe signers.24In this case there is only one signer, so this is completed25by Michael.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/Mangold12A34APage 1564This is another required account opening document?Correct.And what does it list as the account name?Resolution Consultants LLC.5слAnd is this document also signed?106A78910A1112AYes, it is.And whose signature is that?Michael Cohen's.And what date was it signed?10/13/2016.All right. Turning now to the following page, is thisanother bank opening document?13AIt is.1415A16What is the purpose of this bank opening document?of what type ofThis gives us an overview onbusiness transaction activity will look like and what type of--17business it is.18And taking a look at the top third of the page. In the1920top box that says "Business Name."What's listed there?21AResolution Consultants LLC.22And in the box below that, can you describeI'm23sorry,we will take that down.24(Displayed.)25Where it says: "Describe the type of business beingLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15651234567conducted, " what description is provided for Resolution• Consultants LLC?A"Resolution Consultants LLC is a consulting firm.Michael Cohen provides individuals and businesses, includingfinancial services, law firms, technology firms, et cetera,advice on strategy, PR, marketing, best practices andprocedures, et cetera. All of his clients are in the USA."And is this consistent with the description thatgave you on the phone call earlier that day about theMr. Cohentype of account he wanted to open?891011AIt's consistent with it, yes.121314sorry,151617A1819202122All right.MS. MANGOLD: Turning two pages ahead. I'mthree pages ahead.(Displayed.)Do you see a series of questions and check boxes?Uh-huh.Looking now at the question inWhat does that say?--labeled number 12.A "Is the entity associated with politicalfundraising/political action committee PAC."And what answer is checked?23A"No."2425And do you know why the form includes a question aboutpolitical fundraising?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15661ABecause it would be something the bank would want to2know.34And if somebody checked "yes," is that something thatwould require additional review by the bank?5AYes, it would.106789All right.Now,MS. MANGOLD: I think we can take this down.do you recall what happened with the bank accountthat Mr. Cohen tried to open for Resolution Consultants LLC?10AYes. It waswe did all of our work to establish it,111213141516A17but it was never funded.And what does that mean that "it was never funded?"A A deposit was never made in the account, so the accountnever went live.So the account was never actually opened?Technically, no.Did Mr. Cohen explain why he didn't fund the account?18ANot until asked, and not until he reached out and19202122Astated he wanted to open a different entity instead.But just to be clear, the Resolution Consultantsaccount was never opened?It was never opened.23MS. MANGOLD:Let's pull up People's Exhibit 36724in evidence.25(Displayed.)Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1567567A8912AYes, it is.34AWhat date was it sent?10/26/2016.And how long after the Resolution Consultants accountopening day was this?Thirteen days, I believe.And, again, it's sent at 6:34 a.m. in the time stamp.Does that mean that it was 9:34 a.m. in New York time?Is this another First Republic Bank email?10AYes, it does.1112A13Who is the email to and from?It's from my assistant, Elizabeth Rappaport, to myself.And what does the email say?14A"Please return Michael Cohen's call at 3212."15Did you return Mr. Cohen's call in response to this16email?17AI did.1819A202122And can you tell the jury what happened on that call?He had stated that he was changing course and no longerwanted to open Resolution Consultants and wanted to open a newaccount.Did he tell you what the new account would be for?23AThe same. For real estate.24And did he express any type of urgency in opening the25account?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15681AEvery time Michael Cohen spoke to me,he gave asense2of urgency.3And this is one of those times?4AThis is one of those times.5сл106789All right.MS. MANGOLD: Can we take this down and showPeople's Exhibit 368.(Displayed.)So what type of document is this?10AThis is our internal Know Your Customer form.11And this is the KYC form that you were referring to12earlier?13AThat's correct.1415And is the bank required to fill this out for everyclient and customer?16AYes, they are.1718And looking now at the portion below the title of thedocument where it says, "Created By."19AThis was created by DeWitt Hutchins.20Who is DeWitt Hutchins?21A2223DeWitt Hutchins at the time was a preferred banker.worked in one of the offices, and the particular office was theone on 56th and Madison.He24Was that the one across the street from Mr. Cohen's25 office?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15691AYes.2What date was the KYC form created?3AOn 10/26/2016.4And it says:"Last updated by DeWitt Hutchins,"5correct?106AYep.789A10Shortly after that, 11:04 a.m.Pacific?That's correct.What types of information are included in the KYC11form?12A131415It's due diligence, so it would be the documentationthat has been provided, who the signer is going to be, thelength of the relationship, who referred it, if we know theclient, do we have an existing relationship.16And what was the legal entity name here for17associated with the KYC form? I think that's partway down the18form.192021AEssential Consultants LLC.Is Essential Consultants LLC the new LLC that MichaelCohen wanted to create an account for?22AYes, it is.23And the KYC form said it was created by DeWitt24Hutchins.25Was Mr. Hutchins the person who had provided the informationLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15701to fill out the form?2AYes.345678So, but Mr. Hutchins input the information into thesystem at the bank; right?A He input the information at the bank as he spoke withMr. Cohen.He doesn'the didn't justHe didn't just make up the information?9AHe didn't just make up the information. We don't do10that.111213A1415It was information that was given to him.And that information was given to him by Mr. Cohen?Yes.Looking now towards the bottom of the first page whereit says "document type provided."16(Displayed.)17AUh-huh.18Can you explain what this is to the jury?19AThis is the articles or Certificate of202122Incorporation/Formation.looked at earlier.What was the date of formation for Essential23 Consultants LLC?Very similar to the ones that we24A2510/17/2016.Turning now to the next page.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1571123the page.(Displayed.)And looking at the questions towards the top third of4In the form does it say--does this have the same question5that wesaw in the Resolution Consultants form?6It says:"Is the entity associated with political7fundraising or political action committee."8AYes. This is just the digital form of what was9 provided earlier, which would be the hard copy.What's the answer to the political fundraising questionon the form?101112AIs "No."13141516171819202122232425Now, turning to the business narrative portion in themiddle of the page.What business narrative is provided for EssentialConsultants LLC?AIt's Michael Cohen is opening Essential Consultants LLCas a real estate consulting company to collect fees forinvestment consulting work he does for real estate deals.And is that consistent with the description of the LLCthat he provided to you on the call earlier that day?Yes, it is.ADo you have an understanding of how it came to be thatDeWitt Hutchins was the one filling out this information whenMr. Cohen called you?Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15721AYes, I do.23A456789How did that come about?Well, when Mr. Cohen called me, I was on a golf course,that's very cliché for a banker, I know, but I was on golfcourse on a day off and, essentially, it was easier for him towalk across the street to open an account than it would be forme to make a series of phone calls to get someone to reach outto him.MS. MANGOLD: Your Honor, I'm at a natural stopping10point now.11121314THE COURT: Sure.Can you approach for a minute?MS. MANGOLD: Sure.(At Sidebar.)151617181920THE COURT: I was just wondering how much more youhave with this witness?MS. MANGOLD: Probably an hour or so.THE COURT: Okay.Do you have that much cross?21MR. BLANCHE:It won't be as long as the direct.22232425THE COURT:MS. MANGOLD:All right. So we will call it a day.Thank you.MR. STEINGLASS: Thank you.(Sidebar concluded.)Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

1G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 15732345слTHE COURT: All right.Jurors, we are going to goahead and stop at this time and call it a week.Jurors, please remember what I asked of you, toremember my admonitions:Do not discuss this case either among yourselves oranyone else.You may tell the people with whom you live and youremployer that you are a juror, and give them informationabout when you will be required to be in court, but you maynot talk with them or anyone else about anything related toDo not, at any time during the trial, request,accept, agree to accept or discuss with any person, thereceipt or acceptance of any payment or benefit in returnfor supplying any information concerning the trial.106789101112the case.13141516171819202122232425You must promptly report directly to me anyincident within your knowledge involving an attempt by anyperson to improperly influence you or any members of thejury.Do not visit or view any of the locations discussedin the testimony.And you must not use internet maps, Google Earth orany other program or device to search for or view anylocations discussed in the testimony.Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

12345сл10678910111213141516171819202122232425G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 1574Do not read, view or listen to any accounts ordiscussions of the case reported by newspapers, television,radio, the internet or any other news media.This includes the reading or the listening to thereading of any transcripts.Do not attempt to research any fact, issue or lawrelated to the case, whether by discussion with others, byresearch in a library or the internet or by any other meansor source. This includes visiting any court sites.I emphasize that in addition to not talking face toface with anyone about the case, you must not communicatewith anyone about the case by any other means, including bytelephone, text messages, email, chat rooms, blogs or socialwebsites.You must not provide any information about the caseto anyone by any means whatsoever, and that includes theposting of information about the case or what you are doingon the case on any device or internet site, including blogs,chat rooms, social websites or any other means.Finally, you must also not Google or otherwisesearch for any information about the case or the law whichapplies to the case or the people involved in the case,including the defendant, the witnesses, the lawyers ormyself.I remind you that we are not meeting on Monday, butLisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter

G. Farro-Direct/MangoldPage 157512345сл1067we will meet Tuesday at 9:30.I hope you have a good weekend.Take care.THE COURT OFFICER: All rise.(Jury exits.)THE COURT: Thank you. You may be seated.8Mr. Farro, you are excused.Have a good rest of9your day.1011THE WITNESS: Thank you, your Honor.(Witness excused.)1213THE COURT: Is there anything more that we need to14discuss?15MR. STEINGLASS:I don't think so, Judge.1617THE COURT: From the defense?MR. BLANCHE: No.18THE COURT: Thank you.192021Have a good weekend.MR. STEINGLASS: Thank you.MS. HOFFINGER: Thank you. You too.22(Whereupon, the matter is adjourned to Tuesday,23April 30th, 2024, at 9:30 a.m.)2425Lisa Kramsky,Senior Court Reporter